Cost to build a Hollmann HA-2M Sportster

3willie

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I have been researching the Hollmann HA-2M Sportster and would like a general idea on cost to build from the plans. I can see the plan cost at Aircraft Designs and know that this construction is within my mechanical abilities. The big questions are the cost of materials (roughly since this changes like all material costs), the parts that should be purchased like blade, rotor heads, etc. Not sure at this point what engines work best with this aircraft, but initially would lean to a Lycoming 0-320 or Subaru EJ22. General info is needed to determine whether to build, buy an existing aircraft or purchase a kit. I do like the process of building and know that can help keep cost more reasonable and allow me to do my own maintenance, so prefer that option. My preference is a two seat side by side aircraft even though they are less aerodynamic, require bigger engines, etc.

Input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 

PW_Plack

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...The big questions are the cost of materials (roughly since this changes like all material costs), the parts that should be purchased like blade, rotor heads, etc....I do like the process of building and know that can help keep cost more reasonable and allow me to do my own maintenance, so prefer that option...
John, first, a couple of myths to bust. In experimental gyroplanes, it will usually cost you less to buy it already built than to build it from scratch, and that's not counting your labor. This is especially true on older designs such as the HA-2M.

You can do you own maintenance on any experimental, whether you have the repairman certificate or not. It's only the annual condition inspection that requires an A&P. Many experimental owners pay for a professional inspection just because it's cheap insurance.

If you're interested in a Sportster, I'd contact Chapter 31 (info on page 2 of Western Rotorcraft) to see if they still have their old club trainer available. It would need an engine and some TLC, and you'd want to do a tear-down anyway, but most of the parts would be there. I believe it was being considered for donation to a museum, but they're raising money for a new trainer, so maybe its for sale.

On the engine, I don't think you can get a Subaru with reduction drive and all external systems running reliably cheaper than a used O-320. The Lycoming is simpler, plentiful, and runs on aviation gas. Cooling can be an issue in pusher designs, but I've not heard of the Hollman having that issue.

Good luck, and keep us posted whichever way you go!
 

All_In

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PRA 31 has one, it's old and unregistered.
We just pulled the O320 out for another use but we are going to sell for far less than you could build one for, it's has everything but one block for the blades IIRC and was told the blades were flown but they need to be balanced.
It you have an interest PM me you contact info and I'll send picture and call or email you as you prefer.
She would have to be rebuilt to be register but 51% use could use many of the parts like the instrument panel, fuel tanks rotor-heard prerotator and many many more saving you time an money?
Might be worth penciling out the saving?
 
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3willie

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Thanks for the info and direction. I did send Dave Bacon an email on the Chapter 31 Sportster to see if it is available. I also understand that often you can purchase something cheaper than it can be built, but do enjoy the building part also. Actually am open to either option at this point. The other build thread starts out with some price detail, but quickly turns to many other subjects. I will read through the entire thread, but still looking for an approximate cost to build.

Thanks to both for your help!!!!
 

PW_Plack

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...I also understand that often you can purchase something cheaper than it can be built, but do enjoy the building part also. Actually am open to either option at this point...
Chapter 31's machine would be some of both! You'd want to do a thorough tear-down.
 

3willie

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PM sent to John Rountree and thanks again Paul. Forgot to request pictures from John, so would appreciate if you could supply some along with some basic asking price, etc.. By the way, where is the Sportster located?
 

dabkb2

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I sent some pics to your email, what do you think?
 

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PRA 31 has one, it's old and unregistered. . .
She would have to be rebuilt to be register but 51% use could use many of the parts like . . .
Caution: rebuilding / restoring / reassembling isn't the same as constructing for EAB purposes. Be very careful how you go about it here, and be sure that it actually can be registered when you're done. I'd get the plan blessed by the intended DAR before committing to it.
 

All_In

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Caution: rebuilding / restoring / reassembling isn't the same as constructing for EAB purposes. Be very careful how you go about it here, and be sure that it actually can be registered when you're done. I'd get the plan blessed by the intended DAR before committing to it.
Hi Jon
Thanks for pointing that out rebuild did not express what was necessary to rebuild.

I just talked to Willie on the phone, and explained that he would have to build 51% of it to be legal.
He could use the old metal as a template/Jig and buy new metal to be legal, it that correct guys?

PS:
He's sounds like a fun loving man with a lot of toys and he just restored a GMC truck that sounds sweet!!!
 
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All_In

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Hi Willie
I bumped the original thread where we picked her up and was going to restore her, before we decided to build a tandem to make it easier to transition into a signal place.
Here is a link: with more pictures!
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28244
 

JEFF TIPTON

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John, I think he could rebuild the aircraft and register it. It would take a DAR that understands it is not from a kit and that he would not qualify for the repairman certificate.
 

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John, I think he could rebuild the aircraft and register it. It would take a DAR that understands it is not from a kit and that he would not qualify for the repairman certificate.
Brother Jeff!!
I don't know the reg that well and still a little confuse.
That word rebuild again, can he just replace the bolts and get it registered, is that what you saying or does he have to buy cut and drill new metal?

What is the difference in a kit build and this type of build as far as the repairman certificate. I thought that if you rebuilt 51% you were the builder and he could sign it off himself?

As our brother Vance says "I'm confused at a higher level?"
 

JEFF TIPTON

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In order for the builder to qualify for repairman certificate he would have to build at least 51% of the aircraft. If it is built by a group of people only one person can receive the repairman certificate.

If the DAR has knowledge that the machine is built from scratch that would satisfy the fifty one percent rule as far as registering the machine as an EAB.

Check with local DAR's and if one of them are in agreement then he would need to repair the aircraft and make it airworthy to pass inspection.

If the aircraft were something like a RV-12 kit that qualifies as an E-LSA and you decide to change something major, say put a 300 horsepower engine on it and the S-LSA version did not have the same engine, then it would not be eligible to be certified as an E-LSA as it no longer is a kit version of a S-LSA. As the kit is say ninety five percent build by the factory it would not qualify as an EAB as fifty one percent is not for education.
 

All_In

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Thank you Bro
I see said the blind man to the deaf and dumb dog, with no one to hear him at all?
 

PW_Plack

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In order for the builder to qualify for repairman certificate he would have to build at least 51% of the aircraft...If the DAR has knowledge that the machine is built from scratch that would satisfy the fifty one percent rule as far as registering the machine as an EAB...
Any member of the amateur team that built the machine is eligible for the repairman certificate if he did any part of the work, no matter how small. So that door is still open for this one, no matter how little of the fabrication and assembly was done by a recent purchaser.

All HA-2Ms were built from scratch, so for any knowledgeable DAR that's a given, but it's not enough to qualify for EAB. The checklist is very specific, and the requirements changed in 2011. (New checklist is here.) At least 51% of the fabrication and assembly, as defined on that list, has to have been done by amateur builders.

This machine doesn't pose the problems of an N-numbered gyro which is sold as "parts." It's a legitimate new build, never registered, but needs to be documented. Can the folks who originally built it be located? If there are photos from the original work which could be incorporated into the build log, it should be easy to qualify this as a new build. It might even be possible using an affidavit from those who did the original work.

I'd say the first step is to get with a qualified DAR who knows gyros and EAB.
 

All_In

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Any member of the amateur team that built the machine is eligible for the repairman certificate if he did any part of the work, no matter how small. So that door is still open for this one, no matter how little of the fabrication and assembly was done by a recent purchaser.

All HA-2Ms were built from scratch, so for any knowledgeable DAR that's a given, but it's not enough to qualify for EAB. The checklist is very specific, and the requirements changed in 2011. (New checklist is here.) At least 51% of the fabrication and assembly, as defined on that list, has to have been done by amateur builders.

This machine doesn't pose the problems of an N-numbered gyro which is sold as "parts." It's a legitimate new build, never registered, but needs to be documented. Can the folks who originally built it be located? If there are photos from the original work which could be incorporated into the build log, it should be easy to qualify this as a new build. It might even be possible using an affidavit from those who did the original work.

I'd say the first step is to get with a qualified DAR who knows gyros and EAB.
Hi Bro!!
Excellent step by step almost.

It was never registered. She was given to PRA 31 by the local EAA. Sadly Joe and Bobby the last members of PRA 31 when active past on just before we reactivated PRA 31.
I contacted the EAA but they did not even remember giving it to them, so couldn't locate the builder.
 

3willie

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Good info and good advice from all. I still have quite a bit or research to do on the basic rules, regs, etc before taking on any of the options. I do enjoy building and working on things which does really give you a ground up feel for what a machine is capable of doing. The obvious down side is the time involved that could be used for other things such as flying. Definitely would like to meet the 51% rule and will see if there is someone local who could certify a rebuild or advise. No sense doing the hard work of a rebuild/refurbish to find out it was all for naught!!

Much appreciation for help with my questions and ideas while on the early part of this learning curve. Learning should never really stop, but this is definitely a new venture and field for an old dog like me.
 
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