Contacted by creator of a 3 place gyro from Russia.

All_In

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All_In

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Here are pictures of single and 3 place.
Well, crap, out of 6 pictures 4 are too large and I do not have the time to reduce the file sizes for you.

Sorry, you can see the other here = way too much to do to add 20 min's more and have two copies of everything just to post pictures here,
 

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All_In

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I have never seen takeoffs executed in that manner. Quite extraordinary - or is that just my inexperience showing?
Yanking it off the runway is not a PRA recommended take-off. All aircraft will fly-off when THEY are ready but then best practice is to level out and gain airspeed then go to Vy.
 

Kolibri

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Hmmmm: RAF-style hub bar, V-tail ruddervators, heavy and rigid mast, etc. . . . what could possibly go wrong?
At least it's got differential toe-brakes. ;)

His take-off technique is <ahem> unusual. "Kids, don't try this at home! "
I think he's lucky to have stayed alive long enough to become "
bored ".


Russian 3-seat gyro.png
 
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Kolibri

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Interesting that the later enclosed version has Sport Rotors.


_9A_00187.jpg
 

Kevin_Richey

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I have never seen takeoffs executed in that manner. Quite extraordinary - or is that just my inexperience showing?

I highly suspect that photo is of that gyro landing, or, the pilot is dragging the tail to show the engine's power to sustain the attitude, in slow flight.

I also suspect that slight gully or depression just under the front of the gyro would have caused the dragging tail to dig into the upward sloping portion of that ditch as he flew another 10' to the left, and cause his flight just off the ground to slow it just enough to cause the gyro to smack the ground on it's mains, and then front wheel. I'd love to be able to ask the pilot what actually did happen there.

Taking off in a gyroplane requires sufficient airspeed for the rotors (wing) to begin lifting the entire weight of the machine & pilot, just like an airplane, powered parachute, or trike. That amount of AS isn't there in slow flight.

For my and the gyro's weight, 27 mph is as slow as I can get b/4 starts going into a vertical descent. Additional throttle beyond that setting causes it to ascend, W-A-Y behind the power curve.

Having experimented w/ my gyro, it won't lift off the ground when rocked back on the tail wheel. The airspeed isn't high enough yet. I have to either balance on the mains (or push the nose wheel back onto the ground) to achieve approximately 43-45 mph AS so that it then levitates. Heavier gyros require even higher AS to be able to unstick from the ground.

When flying the same gyro w/ a Rotax 503 DCDI, it would lift off about 10 mph less (I also weighed some 50# less than now), and I couldn't fly in slow flight hardly at all. Those 52 horses just didn't have enough grunt power. It would descend at full throttle w/ only a slight amount of nose-high attitude.

I have no proof of my opinion the photo is not a takeoff. The rotors are coned upward well, showing they are supporting the aircraft sufficiently for flight. My time spent toying around @ slow flight w/ a powerful Yamaha engine enabling me to fly in that style for extended periods of time is my basis for my opinion about that gyro.

It take getting airborne, and then slowing by throttling back as well as pulling gradually back on the cyclic. Flying in that attitude requires considerably more power than cruise flight, just as in other aircraft where the pilot can control the wing's angle of attack.

Expert gyro pilots flying w/ the powerful 2-stroke McCulloch engine on their Bensen or Brock single place gyros, such as Dave Prater, Gary Goldsberry, and Dave Bacon, are able to fly like that extreme attitude. Having seen all three fly their machines so wonderfully, I don't believe they can lift off in that extreme angle, but they can easily achieve it by slowing down while airborne.

Steve McGowan can drag his two place Parsons trainer, the "Black" (powered by a Mazda rotary engine) by it's tail along the ground in that attitude, in slow flight, just as Ron Awad would do in his Dominator tandem, powered by the Yamaha 3 cyl. snowmobile engine.
 
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Kolibri

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Chances are the Sport Rotors were replacing the RAF set that most likely got smacked...
Yeah, Kevin, probably.
btw, watch
the video. That photo you commented on probably is from take-off.

Regards,
Kolibri
 

Kevin_Richey

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Interesting that both machines utilize the "Stabilitator" so highly recommended by a few RAF instructors & pilots...
 

Kevin_Richey

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Yeah, Kevin, probably.
btw, watch
the video. That photo you commented on probably is from take-off.
Regards,
Kolibri

Well! I stand CORRECTED! I hadn't viewed that video prior to commenting. In it, I see several take-offs in that extreme of an angle. It is asking for something expensive to happen, such as hitting the rotorblade tips on the ground behind the gyro.

I do express misgivings about the technique. I would think it is a recipe for disaster for blade flapping. It would too easy to force it off the ground b/4 the rotors are ready, and cause the gyroplane (rotors) to abruptly go over onto it's side, because they weren't ready to accept all the gross weight. We have seen many videos of that very thing occurring, usually w/ a 2-place machine.

Anyone know what engine they are using, and it's hp?
 

twistair

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RAF rotor was used (just because they already had it) in the first prototype (open khaki) which was lost in an accident when the prop blade has gone in flight at altitude causing gearbox deployment which also smashed the tail. Nobody was injured though aircraft was totalled.
After that they used Sport Rotors only.
I had a doubtful luck to make a single flight in the black cabin one and was happy I hadn't to make second flight due to broken prerotator. This black contraption had absolutely no longitude stability - its V-tail was apparently next to nothing for this and I didn't notice any help of the stabilator.
 

All_In

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RAF rotor was used (just because they already had it) in the first prototype (open khaki) which was lost in an accident when the prop blade has gone in flight at altitude causing gearbox deployment which also smashed the tail. Nobody was injured though aircraft was totalled.
After that they used Sport Rotors only.
I had a doubtful luck to make a single flight in the black cabin one and was happy I hadn't to make second flight due to broken prerotator. This black contraption had absolutely no longitude stability - its V-tail was apparently next to nothing for this and I didn't notice any help of the stabilator.
Thanks for more of the story. I've asked Victor by email about his a trim "wing" hanging out the back of his gimble head. Do you know how it works? At least I think it is a trim wing.
 

twistair

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Thanks for more of the story. I've asked Victor by email about his a trim "wing" hanging out the back of his gimble head. Do you know how it works? At least I think it is a trim wing.

This thing is known as "stabilator", John. As I recall it was introduced by Duane Hunn somewhen in 2002 to decrease RAF stability problems. It was discussed in some threads here on the forum for some times. Here is one of its descriptions: http://www.rafsa.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=133&Itemid=135
 

WaspAir

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I'm not endorsing the technique demonstrated in the video, but it might be worth noting that some aircraft should not be kept on the ground to take flight only when the aircraft wants to go. In the McCulloch J-2, for example, if you wait for it to make the decision for you, it could be a very long time, and your take-off lengths will be wildly inconsistent from one flight to the next (there are some videos available on line that show very long take-off rolls that I believe are due to the pilot waiting for the J-2 to go of its own accord, expecting it to act like an airplane, which it doesn't). Accelerate the J-2 up to 45, then make a distinct twitch backward on the cyclic and it will take off smartly and quickly in under 200 feet every time. Wait for the ship to decide for you and you might run out of runway. And then there's the A&S18A, which requires the pilot to push the "take-off" button on top of the throttle or it will just taxi fast until you run out of room . . .
(That button releases the blades into flight pitch and makes a distinct pop-up.)
 

twistair

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This take-off technique is some kind of advanced practice for skilled pilot only and it should be used not for any gyro and not in any condition.
The trick is that while you prerotate then your rotor acts as helicopter rotor - taking air from above and throwing it downwards. To fly a gyro one needs to replace this downward airflow by usual gyro airflow where airflow enters the rotor from front-and-below. During this exchange rotor looses its RPM and thus increases take-off roll length.
This take-off style makes possible to shorten the take-off roll significantly compared to classic style. BUT! This is only recommended for skilled pilot who clearly understands what he does ;)
I use such style in different gyros, all Auto-Gyro models in particular. It works.
 
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All_In

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Thanks Alex

Quite right Jon, there is always an exception wasn't thinking about Jump take off or helicopters.
 
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