Concept

Thomas

Gold Member
Blue skies to all,

I have been scanning the post for a little while but refrained from making any comments because I am very new to the ultraLight and ultraSport scene. I have a commercial helicopter and fix wing (s.e.l.) rating and have been wondering if there are any machines you might have heard of that are a hybrid of gyro-heli-plane? I have been out of the sky for many years and the new attention given to the ultraLight community has sparked by interest in getting back into flying as more pleasure than work.

As such I have had some ideas bouncing around in my head over these years and wonder how feasible some of these ideas really are. I worked out a schematic for a control system design that is kinda complicataed but seems to be doable. My question; is the integrated mechanics of such a beast feasible?

The idea is to eliminate the aniti-torque provided by a tail rotor, which is a drag on power, and eliminate the airspeed restriction caused by retreating blade stall. The added power could be applied to forward airspeed enhanced by fixed airfoils doubling as engine mounts thereby reducing the load on the rotor disk at higher speeds.

The two counter rotating push props would act as both thrust and anti torque. A third engine would be belted to the rotor mast enabling the craft to hover. Once forward airspeed reaches a minimum the rotor drive can be dissengaged making the vehicle a gyro. As higher airspeeds are reached the wing assembly, mounting the thrust engines, would reach their maximun lift capacity at cruising speeds and the load could be taken off the rotor disk. Forward airspeeds then could be increased with reduced non productive drag (by eliminating a tail rotor) and parasitic drag (by reducing the rotor disk loading).

Has anyone heard of this and what do you think might be the problem with attempting to build such a thing?

Thanks.

Thomas
Always Looking for Work
 
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Thomas

Gold Member
gyrochuck said:
Have you checked out the Carter Copter Site?

http://www.cartercopters.com/

Can't quite hover but they seem to have the retreating blade stall problem solved.
Yeah, I am quite interested in the Carter Brothers. I have been trying to get a job with them in their distribution/sales office but no luck. They are going after the military contracts. One problem with Carter is they use weighted rotor blade tips to store inertia for vertical take off.

My idea is able to do hovering maneuvers while capable, also, to provide high end airspeeds. Carter had a lot of finance to test its design all I have is an idea. So far I have not talked with anyone who has either built a hybrid in an ultraLight form or desinged one for production. The Russians have a heavy lift version of this type but nothing designed for personal use.

It has to start some place and the big manufacturers are sticking with traditional blueprints reluctant to re-tool without financial incentive. The mini market is the only other outlet. There is nothing complicated about the idea but it would take a bit of engineering to fashion the integrated control system.

By eliminated the tail section you cut out almost 30% dead weight and all the power is applied to forward airspeed. I have an alternative also that is an even more simple design but I need to find out what is out there now to expand the idea and find people with like interests.

You reduce retreating blade stall by unloading the rotor disk. That is why you need a fixed wing assembly to maintain lift at higher speeds. The gyro is good only at low speeds while the wings take over at higher speeds.
 

Rotor Rooter

Dave Jackson
Thomas,

This is a very belated reply, but if you are still scanning .....

The objectives of the following rotorcraft concept are similar to yours. You might find some of the information of value.

UniCopter


Dave Jackson
 

Thomas

Gold Member
SyncroCopter

SyncroCopter

Rotor Rooter said:
Thomas,
This is a very belated reply, but if you are still scanning .....

The objectives of the following rotorcraft concept are similar to yours. You might find some of the information of value.
UniCopter
Dave Jackson
Hi Dave,

Could not access the URL you posted but I did access your web page, very nice. Would you mind if I forward the page to some other enthusiast who are working along the same concept lines as you? It will take some time for me to digest the page content and I know the others would be very interested in writing you.
Thomas
 

Rotor Rooter

Dave Jackson
Hi Thomas,

You are certainly welcome to use the information on the web site in any way you wish.
All posts or e-mails welcomed. :)

Incidentally, the first step, in a series of progressive steps, is being taken toward an eventual UniCopter. This project is introduced in a separate new thread entitled 'From Scratchpad to Helipad'.

Dave Jackson
 

Rotate1953

rotate1953
Electric Rotowing

Electric Rotowing

I have been working on a (Self Rotating Wing) concept.You can see a pic. on the r/cuniverse site under (Electric Rotowing) or charlie111 I am now thinking of adapting it to fit most small (Electric Cars).Making it (Removable would make more sense.Seeing how the Wings would have to be similar to a (Glider) The control surfaces could be made to fold away making it easier to store.This way you could use the Car as a Car.And an Aircraft when needed! The car would supply enough voltage to power the unit.And a Tom Tom could be used as a Navigational aid! Looking at 1st prototype I have made some changes (Mainly) changing the direction of rotation.I had a problem with airflow and had to run one wingtip motor in reverse with reverse prop.Changing the direction allowes me to use stock rotation on both wing motors and props achieving Identical airflows.I also have upgraded the motors running Typhoon Motors turning 6.5 props with a 6ft. Rotarywing span.It would just be to BIg of a Unit to carry on the (Roof) Adjustable c.g. would make workable on (Smart cars) and Cars of that size.Hope the Idea Takes Flight.The concept has been proven to work not just by Me .I have seen videos on this.I have simply enlarged the wing area and gone (Electric)
 

Rotate1953

rotate1953
Have you seen my 1st working prototype of the (Electric) self rotating wing Rotarywing is pulled instead of pushed 2nd prototype is Bigger and Better.1st was a very quick build.But proved concept.Have to get 2nd on Video to promote Building it as a Unit for Small E.V.s to Drive in and out of? And Power the Unit!Twitter Charles Glazebrook or r/cuniverse!
 

Matt_S

Newbie
Thanks, Hillberg, for the McDonnel XV1 info and link. This concept craft proves that a stub winged rotocraft is not only feasible, but can achieve 200+mph. Next step...
 

Smack

Re-member?
Any progress?

Any progress?

Where have you forward-thinking fellas gone?
Did anyone get beyond the concept stage on these ideas?
I also think that this is a path worth exploring.
Brian
 

joe nelson

Senior Member
Smack,

This website has it's forward thinkers but if the design doesn't fit the Benson mold it is usually met with the naysayers. Maybe, this attitude is the reason why the European gyros are becoming more advanced than here in the US.

I have found that US gyro technologies are held close to the vest due to the over commercialization of the sport. If you look at the companies selling gyros here all are Benson clones or support that type of gyro. There are very few variation to this rule.

The gyros that dominate the sport are of the single seat type with a few two seater. There is little or no interest in the "family" size gyros to involve the whole family just Dad's big toy. Dad's flying motorcycle if you will.

My learning curve has been wide. It has taken me 2 years to learn the differences between a gyro and helicopter aerodynamics. With another 2 years to learn the differences in model testing.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
Will Butterfly continue after the demise of Larry or will it disappear too.

The US gyro manufacturer list just gets shorter.
 

Smack

Re-member?
segment too small for innovation?

segment too small for innovation?

Joe, yes, I do see flashes of brilliance or 'breaking from the Benson mold', but way, way more of the derisive type of comment here. What's that saying about crabs in a pot pulling the crab back that attempts to leave the group?

I don't detract from the pioneers (mainly Cierva and Benson), but I don't think the design should stop there or is it as fully developed as it could be. What is so wrong about innovation? Maybe the fear of new things or our innate conservatism (keeps the pilot alive)?

Areas that are explored in the experimental aircraft field: electric motors, materials, batteries rather than liquid hydrocarbon fuel, avionics, etc.
Similar studies/innovation in the automobile arena!

I've nothing against the Benson-style gyro; it serves its purpose well.
The gyro community is incredibly small even compared to the experimental FW community. Bringing in more people should also bring in more new thought/innovation. Let's concentrate on that positive attitude rather than the way-too-frequent detractive comments.

Innovate on !
Brian
 
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