Commercial license

jcarleto

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The only values for a Commercial Pilot's License for Gyroplane that I can imagine are (primarily) as a required interim step on the path toward a CFI rating, (secondarily and very rarely) to use in some enterprise involving one of the very few gyroplanes not certificated as experimental aircraft, or (lastly and also very rare) to satisfy a project requirement specification for a special use of experimental gyroplanes by government and/or other entities operating under a special use deviations such as border patrol or police surveillance.

There is no additional value in a Commercial Pilot's license for gyroplane if one does not intend to become a CFI and one only intends to fly privately operated experimental aircraft, other than a possible minor improvement in insurance rates as a result of a superior rating.

A Commercial Pilot's license is required for a CFI rating. However, it is not required for the new Sport Pilot Instructor rating. As you may expect, there are some significant limitations for Sport Pilot Instructors resulting from the lean requirements.
 
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Vance

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I don’t understand the question.

I will give it a try.

My pilot certificate reads Commercial Pilot, Rotorcraft Gyroplane.

The practical test standards for commercial have tighter requirements and there is an additional knowledge test.

I had to have two and a half hours of instrument flying (under the hood), two additional hours of night training, additional cross country dual instruction and specific instruction with a CFI recommendation.

To exercise most of the privileges of a commercial certificate I need a class II medical.

Regards, Vance
 

Brent Drake

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A commercial gyroplane rating is useless unless you want to be a CFI. The only use for a commercial ticket is, if you have a certified gyroplane.

Yes Vance you will need to upgrade your medical for a commercial ticket.

But, a CFI only has to have a third class medical.
 

AirScooter

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A commercial gyroplane rating is useless unless you want to be a CFI. The only use for a commercial ticket is, if you have a certified gyroplane.

Yes Vance you will need to upgrade your medical for a commercial ticket.

But, a CFI only has to have a third class medical.

I am confused. Is it a requirement to have a commercial to get the CFI? I guess the part that confuses me are the statements about needing a class 2 medical for a commercial. But then a CFI only needs a third class medical. ??????

I thought that I understood that you had to have a commercial to be a CFI and that would require a class 2 medical.
 

jcarleto

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It is one of those "little oddities" in the FARs. It goes like this:

You need a Class 2 (or higher) medical to get a Commercial rating and/or to exercise Commercial pilot operations for hire.

You must have a Commercial rating as a prerequisite for a CFI rating.

You do not need ANY medical to teach. Many ground instructors do not have a current medical. You only need the appropriate instructor rating.

You need only be capable of becoming PIC during a lesson as necessary. It requires only a third class medical to be PIC in most aircraft.

The FAA has determined that instructing for hire is not the same as flying commercially for hire. Therefore, since you need only a third class medical to become PIC while instructing and no medical at all for instruction itself, a CFI need only carry a third class medical to perform flight instruction. The CFI would only require a second class medical if he ventured beyond the scope of flight instruction into commercial flight for hire.

So...you need to get a second class medical (or higher) to get the Commercial rating, but if your goal is to be a full-time CFI, then you may let it lapse into a third class medical for your flight instruction operations.
 

bryancobb

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One thing you guys are not thinking about when you say a Commercial Rating in gyros is useless.

Let's say you own a 2-seat experimental gyro and have aspirations to make a living flying helicopters...

It would be MUCH MUCH cheaper and easier to become a gyro commercial pilot in your machine and THEN get a Helicopter Commercial "add-on."
 

RotorRambler

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<snip>

You need a Class 2 (or higher) medical to get a Commercial rating and/or to exercise Commercial pilot operations for hire.

<snip>

So...you need to get a second class medical (or higher) to get the Commercial rating, ...
Jon,

Thanks for putting together a summary for the CFI rating. I only quoted the part that needs correction.

For the practical test, an applicant for a Commercial rating needs only a third class medical, not a second class.

Refer to 14 CFR 61.23 (3) (vi) below.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?type=simple;c=ecfr;cc=ecfr;sid=85f2f758c7572cf6fd784c355d1c55a1;idno=14;region=DIV1;q1=61.23;rgn=div8;view=text;node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.17

§61.23 Medical certificates: Requirement and duration.

(3) Must hold at least a third-class medical certificate—

(i) When exercising the privileges of a private pilot certificate;

(ii) When exercising the privileges of a recreational pilot certificate;

(iii) When exercising the privileges of a student pilot certificate;

(iv) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and acting as the pilot in command;

(v) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate and serving as a required pilot flight crewmember;

(vi) When taking a practical test in an aircraft for a recreational pilot, private pilot, commercial pilot, or airline transport pilot certificate, or for a flight instructor certificate; or
 
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WaspAir

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To get a Commercial gyroplane rating, you need only a third class medical.
Once you have the rating, to use the extra privileges it provides, over and above Private privileges, you need a valid second class medical certificate. If you use only Private privileges, you need only a third class medical certificate.
You must hold a Commercial rating and a third class certificate to take the CFI practical test. Once you have the CFI rating, instructing is not acting as a pilot for hire, so in that role you are not using the commercial privileges and do not need a second class medical.

I can charge for rides in the Air Space 18A, or hire out for photo work, etc., with my Commercial gyro rating. I can charge for instruction in it using my CFI rating.
 

jcarleto

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RotoRambler: Right indeed. I do try to be careful, but I glossed over the finer point. The second class medical is only required to actually USE your Commercial rating once you have it. A third class will do all the way up to the point you actually use the rating. Thank you for the clarification.

bryancobb: I agree it is less costly to get a Commercial rating in a gyro than a helicopter and then get the add-on. However, if one is really looking at overall cost, for a target of helicopter, then the most cost effective method remains training as fixed-wing to the target final rating and doing the cross-over at the end for most people. Remember that travel, scheduling and availability are part of cost.

WaspAir: It was you I was thinking of when I offered, "to use in some enterprise involving one of the very few gyroplanes not certificated as experimental aircraft" as one of the options. That brings up a question I have had. Is the certification for the 18A Normal or Utility (or something else)?
 
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WaspAir

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That brings up a question I have had. Is the certification for the 18A Normal or Utility (or something else)?
I don't think there is a "utility" option for rotorcraft; the only choices I am aware of are "normal" and "transport".
 

jcarleto

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I am guessing "Normal," then.
 

JAL

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I think the point of the question has been lost. Captn did not ask whether it was useful he asked a simple question about what is it. I take it to mean is what is it and perhaps what are the steps.

Lots of pilots get commercial licenses with no intention of fully using it, its a challenge that keeps you interested and makes you a better pilot. For instance some pilots who fly family like to get a commercial licence so they can be more professional and fly at higher standard, others just like the bragging rights and the satisfaction of achieving it with view that sometime in the future they may or may not fully utilize it.
 
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WaspAir

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I am guessing "Normal," then.
Standard, Restricted, Experimental
The A&S18A is certified as Standard Airworthiness, Normal category, type certificate number 1H17.

It is too complex and heavy for a Light Sport pilot to fly it legally, so you must have at least a Private Certificate anyway. Commercial proficiency is a nice target for training, so the question can easily become, "Why not get the higher rating?"
 

jcarleto

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WaspAir said:
It is too complex and heavy for a Light Sport pilot to fly it legally
Right. It tickled me when I took the Sport Pilot Instructor test that all the questions relating to gyroplanes were about the 18A when a Sport Pilot can't legally fly one. I suppose that is because they have no other official documentation from which to gather questions. Of course, there was a question about the wing on a weight-shift aircraft as well, so who knows.
 

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My pilot certificate reads Commercial Pilot, Rotorcraft Gyroplane.

The practical test standards for commercial have tighter requirements and there is an additional knowledge test.

I had to have two and a half hours of instrument flying (under the hood), two additional hours of night training, additional cross country dual instruction and specific instruction with a CFI recommendation.
Vance,
What aircraft did you use for the instrument-flying requirement?
 

Vance

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Vance,
What aircraft did you use for the instrument-flying requirement?
Sorry Tyler, I somehow missed your question.

I did my instrument training in a Cessna 172.

At this time the requirement of flight by sole reference to the instruments needs to be in a gyroplane.
 

JEFF TIPTON

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(d) For a gyroplane rating. A person who applies for a commercial pilot certificate with a rotorcraft category and gyroplane class rating must log at least 150 hours of flight time as a pilot (of which 5 hours may have been accomplished in a full flight simulator or flight training device that is representative of a gyroplane) that consists of at least:
(1) 100 hours in powered aircraft, of which 25 hours must be in gyroplanes.
(2) 100 hours of pilot-in-command flight time, which includes at least—
(i) 10 hours in gyroplanes; and
(ii) 3 hours in cross-country flight in gyroplanes.
(3) 20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(4) of this part that includes at least—
(i) 2.5 hours on the control and maneuvering of a gyroplane solely by reference to instruments using a view-limiting device including attitude instrument flying, partial panel skills, recovery from unusual flight attitudes, and intercepting and tracking navigational systems. This aeronautical experience may be performed in an aircraft, full flight simulator, flight training device, or an aviation training device;
(ii) One 2-hour cross country flight in a gyroplane in daytime conditions that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure;
(iii) Two hours of flight training during nighttime conditions in a gyroplane at an airport, that includes 10 takeoffs and 10 landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern); and
(iv) Three hours in a gyroplane with an authorized instructor in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.
(4) Ten hours of solo flight time in a gyroplane or 10 hours of flight time performing the duties of pilot in command in a gyroplane with an authorized instructor on board (either of which may be credited towards the flight time requirement under paragraph (d)(2) of this section), on the areas of operation listed in §61.127(b)(4) that includes—
(i) One cross-country flight with landings at a minimum of three points, with one segment consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure; and
(ii) 5 hours in night VFR conditions with 10 takeoffs and 10 landings (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern).
Or is this still correct?
 
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