Check list was so important

StanFoster

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
17,139
Location
Paxton, Il
Aircraft
Helicycle N360SF
Total Flight Time
1250
Just wanted to share something that we all know,,but need to keep reinforced. Using a checklist. I have always had a good written one and a mental one that I use. I prefer the mental one but to each his own. I posted some time ago that I like the acronym COPILOT for my mental checklist. Not to rehash all the checks for each letter,,,,...but my story didnt get past the first letter C in my checklist.

I took my dad up two days ago. He had a camera strapped around his neck as he wanted to take some pictures of his first flight.

Before I taxied..I went over with dad about keeping his feet off the rudders...making sure the cyclic had full range of motion...warned him about the throttle that he could inadvertantly bump...etc..

We back taxied 36 ...turned around and I started my COPILOT checklist for takeoff. First letter C....has three things to check....

Carb heat off .... done

Clock to 12 noon to time fuel burn ... done

Controls for full range of motion,,,rudder done.....

cyclic... cyclic....wait a minute....I cant move my cyclic to the right. :eek: A quick check to see why.....dear ol dad had stowed his camera under the cyclic on his side!!

This really reinforced my procedures. The problem is that now that I am taking a few passengers....there are new formulaes in the mix....more things to check.

After that flight...I decided to remove the right cyclic stick. The cyclic bar would have still hit the camera....but now I dont have to consider the passengers legs getting in the way.
 
That's a good one. I add another letter "B" for belly. This local Bell 47 guy was giving rides, He mounted a no so Fat guy but didn't check stick travel aft. So he hover lower nose to speed up and when he pull.

!Wham!! this guy belly was in the midle . Know died but hely was a mess.

ChuckP :D
 
Chuck: Good story and another reason for checklists.

I could add the letter S to my COPILOT checklist....

S.....Stomach .....SUCK it in!!! :D

Well..since my right cyclic is out of there..I wont have to allow for this :)
 
Oh, boy. How timely. I had one of those brain-farts yesterday. When pulling my gyro in and out of the hangar, (and when parked away from my home field), I had been putting this long bungee cord over the rear blade and looping it around the tail support bar (AAI modified RAF) and hooking the 2 metal hooks together so the blades wouldn't teeter and hit the top of the door opening. She's much taller now with the AAI mod. Yep, I forgot to take it off and when I started her up, I heard this sharp whap-whap-whap-whap and saw remnants of the bungee cord go sailing off to my left. The tips of my beautiful (formerly) Prince prop had hit the metal hooks at the ends of the bungee cord. I wondered why I was saving that Prince propeller box in my hangar for so long and never did sell my Warp prop. The prop doesn't look too bad, it just chipped up the glass. I didn't see any wood.

I changed the Gates GT-2 belt while I was at it, but I must say, the old one looked perfect. Those are great belts. If anyone is still running a Jason, I'd suggest strongly switching to the Gates GT-2. I probably had a couple hundred hours on mine. I had all the teeth (cogs) shear off on a Jason one time on take-off. Luckily I landed safely on the remaining runway (probably due to my superb piloting skills). :rolleyes:
 
Count the ways

Count the ways

Good story about the camera. I will throw 2 cents in here. Had a ultralight fw pilot complain about sticking controls. They took everything apart to check for cable or pulley problem. Nothing was found. Owner went to replace or restich seat covers and upon reinstallation found that the extra slack of the strap on the bottom of the seat cover was intermitt getting caught on the cable and jamming the pulley right behind it. You can't be too careful.

Jonathan
 
Skip the preflight?

Skip the preflight?

KenSandyEggo said:
Yep, I forgot to take it off and when I started her up,
Hi,
Question: How on earth could this happen? What about your preflight checks - surely you do these, and if so, how could you miss this?

Confused,
Duncan
 
Don't keep us in suspense...

Don't keep us in suspense...

StanFoster said:
Just I posted some time ago that I like the acronym COPILOT for my mental checklist. Not to rehash all the checks for each letter,,,,...
Hi there,
Here in New Zealand, we're taught (in fixed wing, at any rate) to memorise all our checks. It's a bit of a mental burden to begin with, but it soon becomes 2nd nature, and it is a real comfort to know that the checks are always there, ready to spring out and be used at a moment's notice.

However, I'm interested in what the COPILOT acronym stands for. I'm probably not alone in this, so please educate us and give us the checks one by one.

Thanks,
Duncan
 
How could I do this? I do the preflight in the hangar and then pull her out. The darn thing is high up in the air and I neglected to see it while I did the outside walkaround. :cool: Haven't you ever made a mistake or overlooked something in your life, Duncan? :confused: People post their mistakes here for others to learn from, not to be criticized with self-righteousness, as you already did to another poster. How about some helpful hints instead of awed surprise at our stupidity. It'd be more welcome. ;)
 
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Duncan: I memorize mine like I said. It seems when I read a checklist..I am not concentrating on it as hard as if I am going through it mentally. Ok..here is my personal mental acronym....COPILOT ...and what I use each letter for..all I know is it could have saved my butt the other day on takeoff.

This check list is after the outside walkaround and the fuel is measured with an outside metered site gauge.

C...... carb heat off.....
clock set to 12 noon.....I time my fuel burn from a known amount
controls........ check full range of motion in rudder, cyclic, throttle

O ..... oil pressure


P ..... Pumps ....fuel pump #1 is turned on...#2 is off
Pressure is checked......#1 is turned off and #2 on
Pressure is checked on #2 pump
Pumps.......both on

I .... Ignition both CTI and MTI ignitions are checked
Instruments scanned

L..... Lights strobe light on...nav and landing lights if needed

O .... O ----altimeter setting......My situation finds this to be best for me
as I immediately know my above ground height for emergencies. I
have a WAAS GPS that gives me accurate ASL for my official altitude.

T.... Temperature of the water should be in the green
Traffic last thorough check for traffic
Transmit announce departure
 
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Hi,
Thanks for the list. I think it is excellent. Is this also in addition to your runup checks (ie 1800rpm, cycle carb heat, check both magnetos...)?

Duncan
 
Ken, I am very sorry to hear about your prop. We just discussed how the Prince is a big commitment especially when you can't just replace blades. I still want one. Can it be repaired? I am truly bummed out for you. Don't worry , it's only money. Right?
 
Duncan: When I check my carb heat...yes..I cycle it,,,then turn it off.

When I said I check my mags..that of course is with a runup.

Do I ever forget something? Absolutely..I would be lying if I said I didnt. Nothing is fool proof ..and Ken sharing what happened to him helps me realize we are prone to mistakes.

The other day...after takeoff...I looked down and one of my fuel pumps was off. I was ticked off at myself...but in reality...I think an occasional brain fart ..if taken as a good lesson will make us better for it. I know I make double sure on the fuel pumps ...even after my checklist is complete.
 
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Chris, I'm pretty sure the Prince can be repaired. It just broke a little of the glass at the tips. Didn't get very deep or into the wood. I'll send it off this week.
 
Ken,
Good to share your incident - hope it will encourage more.

Remember - the person who never made a mistake, probably never made anything.
 
Memorized mental checklists are my preference, as well, but I'll always use a written one when I fly with passengers from now on. I took my daughter and her husband to dinner one night last year in a rented Cessna 172. It was nighttime when we left for the return flight home, and I because I wanted to minimize exposing my eyes to light, I relied on my mental checklist rather than light up the cockpit.

The takeoff was so perfect I couldn't feel the wheels leave the ground, and happened about 5 knots sooner than I expected, but then the 172 would not climb above about 15 feet AGL. I quickly realized I still had 40 degrees of flaps, having lowered them for the pre-flight check, and missed resetting them to zero after starting the engine. I never would have escaped ground effect.

The distraction of briefing my passengers before takeoff had caused me to miss that item on my mental checklist. I reached down and gradually retracted flaps, and made an otherwise uneventful takeoff. (Fortunately, I had made a decision early on to not take passengers anywhere I didn't have plenty of excess runway.)

I'm already thinking ahead to how I'll handle this in my first gyro, which I hope to build over the winter and fly next year. I keep coming back to a laminated card on a neck lanyard, but since I love flying at night, I may consider building a device to play an audio checklist into my headphones, or get a palm computer with checklist software, and find some way to dim the lighted display. I've made over 400 takeoffs, and the only other overlooked checklist item which affected flight was a pitch trim setting in an Aeronca Champ, but a serious oversight can occur just as easily as an inconsequential one.
 
Whew!

Whew!

Hi,
This was a really salutary tale... but if truth be told, it happens in various permutations all too easily to most of us. I've taken the precaution (even though my checks are all mental) of having the first letters of each check displayed on my panel (nb I don't fly at night, so this serves me well). For example, I have the letters, "TMPFFICSTR" on my panel, and whenever I feel flustered, rushed or otherwise at risk, I refer to the list as a double-check.

I've never used audible checklists, but they sound perfect for your scenario. I use Anywhere Map on my iPaq, and they offer the Personal Digital Copilot which does this. Good luck in your search for a solution, and I hope you share your final decision in this regard with the rest of us.

Thanks for the story,

Kind regards,
Duncan
 
I''ll throw my 2 cents in here...

Checklists are great things...

But I think a purely mental one is a BAD idea....Id trust a piece of paper to remember every single time more than I would my old nogin...

Written check lists work a lot better if they are simple statements spaced well apart (ie double or triple spacing) ....and it helps if there is a place to ACTUALLY check things off RIGHT AFTERRRRRR they are done/checked.

dont check something off your about to do but havent done yet because right after you do you might get distracted and not do it but will have wrongly checked it off...and dont check something off way after you did it because your mind can always play tricks on you and youll "remember" doing something you didnt actually do....

Make a real checklist, laminate it, and you can use a grease pencil to mark things off as you go along.....

DONT talk to people or let them talk to you when your doing an important task.....even a simple one....that came damn close to killing me or someone else once....that resulted in one of those it took 5 seconds to happen but those 5 seconds mentally seemed like an eternity events...

Call out vebally aloud every task as your doing it...even if your alone....if you do that along with seeing a checklist and physically checking things off you have done one very important thing...you have involved your mind in THREE distinct ways....verbally, visually, and physically.....and that IS a very good way to keep the old nogin in line...

And while doing something enough that it becomes a habit is generally good....if it becomes too much of a habit that can be bad....

Rather than just getting in the old autopilot mode and letting habits do the rest.....You need to VERY deliberately and conciously do whatever important task that needs doing....again because if you make something too much of a habit....its real easy to not do it or not remember if you did it or not...just think of all the automatic habits in everyday life you mess up once in awhile....did I turn of the light as I left? Opps, I forgot the lock the house door when I left etc etc....those habits are so ingrained that the choice to do them isnt usually even a concious decision.....thats something you DONT want happening with a life or death checklist...

And finally, if someone is around to watch and listen but not interferre with you checks...that is good as well....and if they have any concerns, questions, or observations it needs to be the LAW that you WILL NOT get pissy, or offended, or condescending or anything else less than a 100 percent receptive and introspective when they do...and if you cant see the importance of that you shouldnt even be flying.

take care

Blll
 
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