ceirva c30

[markham]

has anyone ever seen any plans for a scaled down version of the ceirva c30 i want to build one, i have seen pictures of one on the forum but no contact info for who built it
any help appreciated thanks john

 

[WHY]

I think a fellow in Spain built it, powered it with a Moto Guzzi if I remember right. Do n't know how it turned out, was really nicely built

Tony

 

[Alan_Cheatham]

Somewhere on the net are several pages of hand drawn plans for the Spain C30 replica gyro, I have set on my computer.

Being into tractor gyros I have scoured the net for any type of plans, these are the only one I have found in several years of searching.

.

 

[kolibri282]

https://giroweb.mforos.com/378414/8726866-autogiro-c-30-planos-constructivos-tractor-de-victor-merino-espana/

 

[C. Beaty]

Those Spanish C-30 replica plans appear to be faithful to the original, using an inverted tailplane airfoil on the LH side to compensate for propeller torque.

Anyone using them should be aware that if an engine of opposite propeller rotation is used, the horizontal tailplanes will have to be reversed.

 

[WHY]

I remember seeing those articles, anyone know how they turned out or are they still flying??

Tony

 

[Redbaron]

I want one! Was the original c30 fuselage made of wood?

 

[C. Beaty]

The original C-30 frame was a welded steel tube basic box with a lot of wood stringers to give it its shape.

 

[Alan_Cheatham]

I want one! Was the original c30 fuselage made of wood?

No, the C30 was welded steel tube with wood formers to give shape to it's fabric covering.

Now, the C40 did have a wood fuselage. https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/2/7/8/0/9/2/a3017745-58-CIERVA C-40.jpg?d=1264497606

.

 

[Redbaron]

In jurgens link I noticed the replica with the wood fuselage. That was the reason I asked. A modified mini-max fuselage looks like a good substitute. An ultra light version with wood and foam fuselage could be possible with some stress analysis. Dreaming of course. :violin:

 

[WHY]

If you go back to December of 1977 in the PRA magazine "ROTORCRAFT" and read the story of Arliss Riggs and his 20 years of tractor gyroplanes, you will wonder about why we have not taken his work and run with it. He was WAY AHEAD of his time. Jim Eich was really ahead of his time in his JE-2 except for a single design error which made the machine subject to a flat spin in a full power max performance climb out. The error could have been easily corrected, but Jim choose to not market the plans any more.

Tony

 

[markham]

thanks everyone for all the input keep this thread going some great ideas out there ,had my pitbull out and taxiing around the other day so getting closer got a few more bugs to work out, would also love to build a full size kellet, why did we ever stray from those old designs?

 

[Vance]

Training?

Training?

Hello John,

What are you going to do about gyroplane flight training?

Thank you, Vance

 

[kolibri282]

....would also love to build a full size kellet

So do I, just have to wait until I made the few million $$$ this would take......;-)

A modified mini-max fuselage looks like a good substitute.

What about a Pietenpol conversion as an alternative?
https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27683&highlight=Pietenpol



By the way, the C-30 replica had been discussed before in the RotaryForum, the thread is here:
https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30011&highlight=Pietenpol

 

[mercert]

John,

We strayed because in the late 40's Igor Benson came out with his "gyrocopter" that was afordable for people to build and so the "pusher" gyroplane was born and became popular. Unfortunately it was many years until it was understood what was needed to have a safe or safer flying pusher gyro. Tractors until now are not really "sexy" and a bit more complicated to build than a bolt together pusher, i say until now as the "Phenix" that the guys in Spain are developing is a very sexy looking tractor and looks to be stable and very well thought out.

As for instruction Vance, to my knowledge Ron Menzie is the only instructor that has "Tractor experience" and has flown Ron Herron's Little Wings. I took my initial gyro training from Ron in 1999 and will return to him once my Little Wing is ready to fly.

Tim

 

[Doug Riley]

Igor Bensen (not "Benson") did not invent the pusher gyro.

Cierva submitted a drawing of a pusher as part of one of his patent applications.

The Buhl company produced a successful pusher gyro using a Cierva-Pitcairn rotor system, under a U.S. sub-license. It had a huge HS centered in the propwash. Its crew cabin was quite high. Its vertical tail spanned the prop circle and used above-the-prop bracing like a Dominator or Barnett.

Interestingly, the Buhl Pusher also used aerodynamic controls, not direct cyclic pitch. It had slender wings with ailerons for roll control, and that big H-stab had elevators for pitch control.

Bensen had flown a Cierva-style tractor gyro belonging to his employer quite a bit before he adapted his version of the Hafner Rotachute (a WWII gyroglider) to power. I imagine he chose pusher power because it allowed him to use the gyroglider frame with almost no modification, while a tractor demands a more airplane-like fuselage.

 

[markham]

clint martindale advised me to get instruction in a traditional gyrocopter and to finish up my fixed wing tail wheel instruction and between the two he says the transition is easy
and as for the full size kellet other than the cost of the radial engine I don't think it would be do out of sight price wise to build one but then i have my own machine shop,and tig welding up a fusalage is cake to.

 

[WHY]

HI John

Sounds like you would be in prime shape to build one, but as you say about the engine. I don't know what one of the older small radial engines like a 220 Continental would costs. I'm not sure if the new Rotec 9 cylinder 150 hp radial would have enough hp for a larger tractor like a that.

Tony

PS The rotor head and system would be the sleeper to find

 

[mercert]

Doug,
no place in my post did i say Igor Bensen "invented" the pusher! I stated he "introduced HIS" gyrocopter!
and EXCUUUUSE ME for misspelling Bensen!

John here is a picture of my Tractor i just spent the last 2 1/2 years building. as soon as my clutch is complete i can start testing and get it inspected and start flying it.

keep the dream alive of building a tractor, no matter which design you choose.

Tim

 

[Barron 64]

I think a fellow in Spain built it, powered it with a Moto Guzzi if I remember right. Do n't know how it turned out, was really nicely built

Tony

I know its an old post, but here is the link to what WHY was referring to. On the page it is post 278

https://www.reaa.ru/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1322397558/271