Cavalon

[Hosko]

93K views · 291 reactions | An ultralight helicopter has crashed mid take-off from Toowoomba Airport on Sunday. The pilot walked away with no serious injuries however the airport was closed for several hours. #helicopter #helicoptercrash #Toowoomba #

An ultralight helicopter has crashed mid take-off from Toowoomba Airport on Sunday. The pilot walked away with no serious injuries however the airport was closed for several hours. #helicopter...

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Cavalon crash near Toowoomba Qld

 

[PJB]

didnt pull the stick back.... until he did...

 

[Gyro-nut]

Another 'airplane' take-off
That disk is as flat as can be on the roll out....

 

[rcflier]

Another rich idiot!!

 

[Abid]

93K views · 291 reactions | An ultralight helicopter has crashed mid take-off from Toowoomba Airport on Sunday. The pilot walked away with no serious injuries however the airport was closed for several hours. #helicopter #helicoptercrash #Toowoomba #

An ultralight helicopter has crashed mid take-off from Toowoomba Airport on Sunday. The pilot walked away with no serious injuries however the airport was closed for several hours. #helicopter...

www.facebook.com

Cavalon crash near Toowoomba Qld

Same freaking airplane pilot crap. Stick neutral on the run and then rotate. Glad he is ok and out of gyroplanes.

 

[Mike G]

Another rich idiot!!

I don't know if he was rich or an idiot, he simply made a mistake that could so easily have been avoided, you know what I'm going to say, if a GWS had been installed.
How many more of theses accidents that damage gyros and their reputation do we have to witness before manufacturers wake up and offer the GWS?

As I see it the problem is that gyro pilots (perhaps all pilots) think it can never happen to them, they never make mistakes. Therefore they don't ask manufacturers for a warning system so there's no incentive for manufacturers to spend time and money even looking at these systems.

I see this as a short term thinking on the part of manufacturers. If we continue with these accidents insurance will become so expensive or even not available so guys thinking of investing in 150,000$ gyros will think twice about buying one if there's no insurance available, hence the market for new machines risks to dry up.

Mike G

 

[Vance]

It is my observation that people who don’t make mistakes don’t have very interesting lives.

The cost and challenging with getting gyroplane insurance has already stopped many people from flying gyroplanes and has contributed to many gyroplane flight instructors giving up instructing.

This mishap is a very good example of why a GWS is such a good idea.

A gentle reminder that a mistake is being made helps to make it a small inexpensive mistake and a learning experience.

Almost all of my clients begin with the unreasonable fantasy that pulling the stick back will make the gyroplane go up.

People with fixed wing experience are at a greater disadvantage flying gyroplanes because they have been taught that flying is all about airspeed and they have some unlearning to do.

In my opinion based on my observations; people who feel they are too smart to make this sort of mistake aren’t.

 

[SpyderMike]

Is GWS offered on any factory built gyro? Is it available to all gyro builders?

 

[Abid]

Is GWS offered on any factory built gyro? Is it available to all gyro builders?

On all new AR-1's

 

[Hosko]

Another 'airplane' take-off
That disk is as flat as can be on the roll out....

So , this gyro wasn't behind the power curve?

 

[Vance]

So , this gyro wasn't behind the power curve?

Gyroplane flying terms are often poorly defined.

To me; behind the power curve means operating below the indicated air speed for sustained flight or where more power is required to sustain flight as the airspeed is reduced.

It appears to me from the video he had enough airspeed for sustained flight.

In my opinion because the disk was relatively flat the rotor was not accelerating or even maintaining the pre-rotation speed.

When the pilot pulled the cyclic aft the rotor was not ready to fly.

In other words too much indicated airspeed for the rotor rpm, the critical angle of attack is exceeded and a rotor blade stalls.

From that point on the pilot does not have control of the aircraft.

 

[Abid]

So , this gyro wasn't behind the power curve?

No. He overran the rotors by having a flat disc (stick neutral) and rotor RPM decayed due to this and then he "rotated" at a specific speed (airplane pilot) by pulling the stick back. That creates a sudden nose up (very high and this is a dead giveaway) and sometimes also a lift off but immediately also a "Retreating Blade Stall" where the forward going rotor will flap up in a miserable attempt to decrease its angle of attack as much as physically possible and retreating blade will flap down as much as possible in an attempt to increase its angle of attack as much as possible, so the lift on both sides can be equalized but the retreating blade hits its critical angle of attack and flap stops and stalls and falls down generally hitting the tail or prop blades and this also creates an uncontrollable left roll which is assisted by the engine torque as well, as usually engines are at full power on takeoff.
the GWS that Mike has developed would have been warning the pilot many seconds before he got to critical area. Now pilot may still have been clueless but he was trained then he would recognize the warning and the only solution from that point is to cut power, keep stick forward (never bring it back because that change creates the retreating blade stall) and apply wheel brakes to slow down and abort takeoff.

In a behind curve accident, the gyro would climb up and then because of excessive drag tend to settle back down and yes it could roll as well but not as early and as quickly and the violent nose up would not be quite that dramatic and sudden. Pilot can easily get out of that by lowering the nose a bit while keeping power full and go into slow flight and then slowly to normal flight speed and fly away (save any obstacles). GWS would warn you of that also before it got critical.

 

[Hosko]

No. He overran the rotors by having a flat disc (stick neutral) and rotor RPM decayed due to this and then he "rotated" at a specific speed (airplane pilot) by pulling the stick back. That creates a sudden nose up (very high and this is a dead giveaway) and sometimes also a lift off but immediately also a "Retreating Blade Stall" where the forward going rotor will flap up in a miserable attempt to decrease its angle of attack as much as physically possible and retreating blade will flap down as much as possible in an attempt to increase its angle of attack as much as possible, so the lift on both sides can be equalized but the retreating blade hits its critical angle of attack and flap stops and stalls and falls down generally hitting the tail or prop blades and this also creates an uncontrollable left roll which is assisted by the engine torque as well, as usually engines are at full power on takeoff.
the GWS that Mike has developed would have been warning the pilot many seconds before he got to critical area. Now pilot may still have been clueless but he was trained then he would recognize the warning and the only solution from that point is to cut power, keep stick forward (never bring it back because that change creates the retreating blade stall) and apply wheel brakes to slow down and abort takeoff.

In a behind curve accident, the gyro would climb up and then because of excessive drag tend to settle back down and yes it could roll as well but not as early and as quickly and the violent nose up would not be quite that dramatic and sudden. Pilot can easily get out of that by lowering the nose a bit while keeping power full and go into slow flight and then slowly to normal flight speed and fly away (save any obstacles). GWS would warn you of that also before it got critical.

Yes , that was my exact observation from watching the clip . However , during some online discussions , I was "informed" by a retired instructor that the pilot was flying behind the power curve & the crash was a classic result of his technique , which left me concerned at the level of understanding of some trainers . Flying behind the power curve , with sufficient altitude, is totally controllable , it's part of the syllabus.

 

[Abid]

Yes , that was my exact observation from watching the clip . However , during some online discussions , I was "informed" by a retired instructor that the pilot was flying behind the power curve & the crash was a classic result of his technique , which left me concerned at the level of understanding of some trainers . Flying behind the power curve , with sufficient altitude, is totally controllable , it's part of the syllabus.

Thankfully that instructor is retired. I can only say gyroplane instruction is behind the curve in many cases. Choose wisely.

 

[vkmaynard]

Just ignorant. Rinse and repeat. No wonder why we can't get reasonable insurance. Look familiar?

 

[Hosko]

Thankfully that instructor is retired. I can only say gyroplane instruction is behind the curve in many cases. Choose wisely.

I wonder if any of his students got further training

 

[Mike G]

Just ignorant. Rinse and repeat. No wonder why we can't get reasonable insurance. Look familiar?

Victor
Here is the same video with a voice over of what the GWS would have said to this pilot as he accelerated. I've posted this before but can't find it.

Mike

 

[Mike G]

Is GWS offered on any factory built gyro? Is it available to all gyro builders?

sorry Hosko. for the thread drift.

SpyderMike

The answer to your question is probably somewhere in the existing GWS thread

Thread 'Gyro Warning System'

Jan 6, 2021

Here is a video I managed to take today that gives an idea of what my Gyro Warning System does. I had an air compressor failure that meant I didn’t have trim, rotor brake or pre rotator so had to use the manual system. It was bl..dy cold and the ceiling was pretty low limiting what I could do.

The first TO is with 150 Rrpm, pre rotator off and WOT. You can hear the warnings « Flapping Risk » followed by « Flapping, Flapping, Flapping »

The second TO is 200 Rrpm but leaving the stick forwards, you can hear the warnings « Flapping Risk » followed by « Flapping, Flapping...

• Mike G
• Replies: 299
• Forum: Piloting Technique / Accident Discussions

• 
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If you haven’t the time or patience to wade through 14 pages of posts, the simple answer is that only Silverlight and Pagotto (Brako, SkyBlazer & now Thunderbolt models) from Italy offer the GWS, just about all the other manufacturers have been offered it and most simply don’t reply or are too busy to be bothered with something that might reduce accidents.

I’ll answer your question about availability to gyrobuilders in the GWS thread.

Mike

 

[SpyderMike]

Got it, thanks.

 

[vkmaynard]

Think the GWS is a great idea!

But what about training?

Started flying and soloed at 14 (1973) then earned private glider at 15, private power at 26, hang glider hang 3 at 27, sport weight shift trike in 2017 and sport gyro in 2019. All of this was through careful training and understanding/respect of each type of machine.

Don't know what's wrong with people's thinking/understanding/respect of what they are flying.

Had the great fortune of gyro training with John Carlton thanks to Barry Kropline's recommendation. John barely introduced himself before he sat me down and ask what are the four ways to flap a rotor on take off.

Including scheduling delays, a total of 15 hours was required to reasonable understanding how to not get in trouble with the gyro.

Still have great respect and some fear of large spinning metal objects with 160 flight hrs and nearly 700 TOLs.

Frustrating to watch avoidable accidents cost all of us.

Victor