Cavalon - Nephi - N882M

Philbennett

Junior Member
I have been interested in LAA way of offering a kit of AR-1 in the UK. Looking into it and trying to see who could do it there. Should cut off 20k pounds off the price
The LAA are based at Turweston where I am and the guys there (LAA) are very keen that somepne should offer a kit so i rhink you'd have every assistance (ill happily do likewise).
If you could offer a 2 seater open tandem with 912 power, basic instruments for £50k (especially with GBPUSD at 1.26) it would sell.
I think however the challenges (not technical just the process, time, energy and by default cost) of BCAR-T are considerable. By way of comparison the most recent aircraft to be granted approval is the Magni M22, that took 3 years via the CAA.
Suffice to say its a joke but as I said the LAA are motivated to get a kit gyroplane approved and they have reasonable influence with the CAA.
 

fara

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Our retail kit price with basic Day VFR instruments with 912ULS is around $65k so its fairly close to 50 GBP
BCAR T is not a problem. Its a derivative for BCAR S and I have done that a few times and know some good acquiantances who went through sec S a few times like Dr. Bill Brooks, Paul Dewhurst etc. on the microlight side. The problem is good old British red tape and finding the right partners.
 
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PW_Plack

Active Member
If it's everything they claim, then it should be able to put the gyro down with zero damage to the gyro.
That's an unreasonable expectation. The chute is there to save your life, not your wallet. Many Cirrus deployments end with occupants walking away, and the aircraft a total loss.
 

loftus

Active Member
That's an unreasonable expectation. The chute is there to save your life, not your wallet. Many Cirrus deployments end with occupants walking away, and the aircraft a total loss.
I acknowledge that I misspoke here, but I guess my point is that I would like to see some sort of demonstration that this device is effective in a true to life situation in an aircraft with a blade that is rotating and potentially oscillating. If not then there may be some truth to the argument that a rotor blade may be a safer bet as a 'parachute'. I went on their website and they seem to insinuate that they do have some proof of this - there are some still photographs of suspended rotorcraft in the air but hard to tell if these are real situations or not. I'm happy to be convinced that these are effective in rotorcraft and not able to become tangled up in a rotating or flapping bade, I'd just like to see it. Has a rotorcraft ever been saved by one of these or are they all FW? In a FW, I think the decision to deploy a parachute may be a fairly easy one to make upon loss of an engine or some sort of spin. In a rotorcraft the decision may need to be more nuanced, I would consider it a mistake probably in most situations to use a chute in case of an engine loss in a gyro, at least while one has control, and assuming it works as advertised to reserve it only in the case of a catastrophic control or rotor assembly failure, or possibly a wire strike. Maybe over a heavily wooded area as well with no possibility of a choice of a 'better' place to land. Particularly in training situations, giving the student or inexperienced copilot the ability to make the decision to pull a chute or not, could be a mistake. I think these things are worth thinking about. I am able to change my mind, but I think these are legitimate questions to ask. This probably could have a thread of it's own. Happy 4th everyone.
 
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ventana7

Gold Member
Loftus,
You bring up a very critical point, of when to deploy. My brother has had 3 Cirruses, and We’ve flown together and discussed this extensively. Iin Cirrus training, which is provided, and on the Cirrus owners website there are endless discussions urging pilots to deploy as soon as they consider it. Not to wait, not to try to save a bad situation, etc,
In a gyro with a functioning rotor, you would likely delay the decision, and likely be flying a gyro closer to the ground and thus have less time too.

As a experienced pilot, when I read the list of scenarios the only one that I personally thought I would want a-chute for is rotor or mast failure, or control failure. I. A control failure. How will the two interact as you would still have a functioning rotor? How is it going to work with one broken blade, from midair, bird strike, or structural failure. In a mast failure, the gyro would either tumble or invert. In either of those scenarios, you could be upside down, or tumbling, experiencing G forces and disorientation. Can. You pull the handle? Will it work with one blade still attached, or half a mast, or iff deployed while spinning or upside down?

Rob Dubin
 
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Kolibri

FW and Gyros
And we await the laboriously long coroner's inquest process & ASRA's final report .... but the TAG ( FOLDABLE)mast's in all likelyhood . . . . . . . .
Chris, I and others are reserving further comment until the final report. Please join us in waiting for that, thank you.

__________
A control failure. How will the two interact as you would still have a functioning rotor? How is it going to work with one broken blade, from midair, bird strike, or structural failure. In a mast failure, the gyro would either tumble or invert. In either of those scenarios, you could be upside down, or tumbling, experiencing G forces and disorientation. Can. You pull the handle? Will it work with one blade still attached, or half a mast, or iff deployed while spinning or upside down?
Excellent points to consider for those who may be concerned about a possible mast, blade, or control failure.
A BRS for them would provide only a false sense of comfort, kind of like buying an insurance policy that has a hidden clause stating something to the effect that "
no claim of yours shall ever be paid " (hat tip to Monty Python).

With a reliable rotor (and independent trim-to-the-rotorhead), the rotor IS the "parachute" and needs no BRS.
 
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GyrOZprey

Aussie in Kansas.
Chris, I and others are reserving further comment until the final report. Please join us in waiting for that, thank you.

__________
EXCUSE ME !......BUT I WAS NOT THE FIRST TO START BRINGING UP THE TAG accidents ...in this THREAD ...I was just correcting some erroneous IMPRESSIONS!

There seems to be double standard here ....I cannot "defend" MY brand ... but YOU can get all hissy about perceived encroachments onto SportCopter's rotor-market share!!!

REALLY ERIC !!!!!??????? .yap-yap-yip-yip!
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
It's the 4th of July, Chris. I'm not going to "taxi through the corn" with you today.
 
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ventana7

Gold Member
Interesting that in the list of 8 situations above, all the even numbered ones are major pilot screw-ups fully avoidable with training and common sense. I would look on it as a list of 4. With regard to the Galaxy system will it work in unusual attitudes?
JR


Flying my Xenon in the Colorado Rockies

Here is a video clip of what is one of my easier routes out of our Arkansas River Valley. There is a road along the river and in most places I could land on either fields or the road itself. The video clip does not look like it but I was always within gliding distance to the road.

I appreciate the sentiment of flying over landable terrain. For me I have a line of 14,000' peaks 8 miles west of my airport. I can go north up the valley a ways to Leadville- the highest airport in the US at 9,934'. Farther than that leads to another line of 14,000' peaks.

I can go directly south at 10,000' to get over Poncha pass and into the San Luis Valley which will lead me to routes east or west. To get east to the front range I have to fly about 11,000' to get over La Veta Pass.

The river route is a nice flight and not far from where you are in Highlands Ranch. You should come up for lunch one day.
Rob
 

DavePA11

Active Member
Rob,

Where are you based out of in Colorado? I live in Evergreen now. I flew to Salida in Mirage the other weekend and saw what looked like a Xenon in one of the hangers. How does the gyro handle at those altitudes? I sold my M912 when moved out to Denver from Boston since didn’t think it would have the performance needed without the 914 turbo. I just rented a hanger at Platte Valley airport for Husky which looking to buy. Maybe I can fly out sometime.

Dave
 

ventana7

Gold Member
Rob,

Where are you based out of in Colorado? I live in Evergreen now. I flew to Salida in Mirage the other weekend and saw what looked like a Xenon in one of the hangers. How does the gyro handle at those altitudes? I sold my M912 when moved out to Denver from Boston since didn’t think it would have the performance needed without the 914 turbo. I just rented a hanger at Platte Valley airport for Husky which looking to buy. Maybe I can fly out sometime.

Dave
Yes that was my Xenon you saw. I’ve had my 122Hp turbocharged Xenon here for years but only flown one up. I’m sure it would do OK with two though. I just added bigger pistons and @ different prop so now have 140 Hp. Only done one flight so far with the new setup so too early to comment.

I regularly fly at 10,000 feet or more going over passes here and I have the larger Xenon blades. It does feel different at altitude. I describe it as the blades not having as much “grip” on the air.

Let me know if you are heading back up this way.

My brother had a Meridian and a Matrix. Fun planes

Rob Dubin
 

NJpilot

Member
Here it the first parachute for a helicopter.
I saw this at the Aero Expo. The first thing I noticed, besides the chute atop the rotor, was that it had no throttle on the collective. Throttle is under full FADEC control including maintaining rotor rpm with collective changes.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Did you see a throttle anywhere else in the cockpit? I wonder how you would practice autorotations without a throttle to roll off (and I would like to have some practice at that, despite the presence of a parachute, to not be completely reliant on the parachute as the only option for a power crisis). Auto practice from hover, for example, would still be really important even with a chute, because you won't have time for deployment from hover height.

Maybe switching off the FADEC sends you to flight idle?
 

NJpilot

Member
Did you see a throttle anywhere else in the cockpit? I wonder how you would practice autorotations without a throttle to roll off (and I would like to
I did not but I wasn't looking for one. I did speak to one of the pilots and he did not mention any alternative throttle control.
 
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