carb heat

diadave

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Aug 11, 2015
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leeds uk
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brock kb2
I have a kb 2 wjth 1835 vw engine .Its got two carbs ( one for each 2 cylinders )and single magneto ignition.No otherelectric source. Is there any way to get carb heat_ into the engine. I know someone out there will have an answer.You nuts always seem to.
 

ultracruiser41

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Run a heat muff from around exhaust pipe to intake
 

phantom

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There are two ways to solve carb ice on a vw engine and I have use both, one way is to make a spacer out of 5/8 inch aluminum plate to go between the flange and the carb, make one side of it oversized, this is where you will a 3/8 passage for the oil line that runs to the oil cooler, the carb that gets the oil first will need the passage shorter if you want the temps to be the same.
The other way is to put a heat muff around the exhaust and pull hot air into the carb but this will cause a reduction in power when ever the heat is turned on.
You need to check the rules in your area because you may have to use the hot air system to pass inspection .
Norm.
 

EI-GYRO

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Have you actually had carb ice?

IIRC Mel Morris-Jones and Dave Organ reckon they solved the carb ice problem
by putting a few percent alcohol in the fuel. This was before the treehuggers
started putting it in for free to save the universe.

I use 5% alcohol petrol and have never seen carb ice yet. I use a single carb.

The idea of putting the oil feed through a hot plate seems like a really good idea,
and if I ever see any sign of carb ice, that's what I'll try.
 

diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
Thanks cruiser 41 and hillberg,also phantom. This now poses another quandary. The oil cooler is still in its original position ie flat to the top of the crankcase between the carbs. I like the idea of the flange and reroute of the oil lines .Is there anywhere I can find a photo or diagram of whats involved. I am again amazed at the combined knowledge and expertise a layman like me has acess to Thankyou all again.
 

diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
el gyro ive just seen your.post, more importantly your location .Im in the same area on the map ,ie you are Dublin and me leeds /York . This gives me hope I may not need any mod,s on the carb ,front. Yet again more to ponder on .ps, what fuel are you on . I hope to use premium unleaded ,what do you think.
 
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phantom

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If you are going to leave the oil cooler on the engine you need to make a one inch spacer to raise the cooler up so you can get the oil out of the engine and back to the cooler , imagine a block of aluminum that has the same bolt pattern as the cooler with the return passage drilled straight through but the outlet from the case is only drilled part way through from each side, then you drill in from the sides 90 degrees from the first holes so when everything is hooked up the hot oil comes out of the engine , into the block, runs to the carb spacers and back into the block and into the cooler.
I have used this type system on several engines including liquid cooled two strokes using coolant instead of oil and it works very well.
Norm
 

diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
hanks phantom . I can,t quite envisage the arrangement as yet but, I,ll look more into it when I get nearer serious flight time. What does the LAA think ie, is it an approved mod.
 
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Barney Bahle

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Crossville, TN 38571
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Rotorway 162F
This is what I have per Ken Brock VW conversion plans from 1982. Gets the cooler off the hot block and into cool air. I don't know if it's legal on your side of the pond but I've seen others like this over here.
 

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diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
Thanks Barney. I think now I come to think .pictures of the cooler hung verticle under the c/case with pipes connecting same .Again I don,t know I its legal here . I shall see what the brass at LAA say.Icould do to post a pic. of my machine bbut I don,t know how .Im areal newbie to computers as well.
 
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Barney Bahle

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Well I'm no computer guy either but I should be able to walk you thru uploading pictures.

On the bottom of the page, under quick reply, you should see a box that says "Go Advanced". click on it. On that page you will see a place to type you message and under that a large box marked "Additional Options". In that box will be "Manage Attachments". Click on that.

You should get a pop-up that has four lines that say "Choose File". Click on the top one and you should get another pop-up that has some sort of directory to the pictures stored on your computer. Pick out the picture you want to post and double click on that picture. For another picture go to the next line and so forth on the four lines. After you choose your pictures, click the box just to the right that says "Upload". The trick now is to wait until they are done loading, it or they will show up just above the afore mentioned "Manage Attachments" Box on the Advanced page.

When done typing and loading pictures (they are size limited but that's above my pay grade) you can click "Preview Post" or "Submit Reply" located just under the goofy Smilies and Icons.

Hope this helps or at the very least, makes sense.
 

EI-GYRO

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Dublin, Ireland
Petrol and oil cooler

Petrol and oil cooler

Petrol here is just regular unleaded, usually with 5% alcohol.

You will need to fit an external oil cooler, as the standard cooler does bugger all
cooling.
It was designed to operate under forced airflow in the car.
An external cooler mounted under the engine will work fine.
I think Great Planes does the conversion attachment and coolers.
The attachment replaces the mounting block and allows connection of the external tubing.
 

diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
OK barney. I think ive got that (your last post )Wil try that with a photo of my kite.Also EL GYRO I can see your logic about the placement of the cooler. Funny the guy that built the gyro was a ROLLS ROYCE engine engineer seconded to BOEING in the 80,s . So you would think he should know about such stuff Any way thahks you guys (again)
 

diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
O derar no photo

O derar no photo

Here, s a pic, of my kite Not a bad looking machine. I think. WOT you lot think. aPPRECIATEany comments or questions.
 

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phantom

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I have to wonder if your gyro has ever been tested for controllability with the engine shut down, I once put an enclosed on a machine with a single tail and when the power was turned off it would turn around so fast that there was no time to fight it, I had in flight restart capability so it was a simple mater of going into a vertical decent and starting the engine.
Norm
 

diadave

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leeds uk
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brock kb2
Thanks phantom for that rather scary scenario. Ive not had gyro running yet .,being too busy making a box trailer to put same into.The guy who built the thing describes in an article published in the rolls Royce magazine I got with gyro. Its flying both under p.ower and with engine on idle and also 40 hours restricted airport testing to gain unrestricted use.he never seemed to mention any bad behaviour pproblems. He wrote the article soon after completing the craft and not as a selling point or to deceive.I shall have to see.
 

EI-GYRO

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That pod is not a normal part of a KB-2, Bensen, or whatever.
I would remove it completely, unless you want some unpleasant surprises.
The existence of the pod on the machine is a sign that the builder
did not know about gyros.
Yaw stability will be terrible, particularly power-off. It may even swap ends.
Pitch stability will probably be compromised, too.
 

phantom

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You have to remember that even at idle there is still a lot more air over the tail than with the engine stopped, I'm sure that pitch instability will be masked by the head quite well as long as it is flown with care, I think that it would be a good idea to put it back to stock configuration at least until you get some time on it , you really don't want to be student pilot and test pilot at the same time.
Norm
 

EI-GYRO

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P.S. Apart from the pod, which is probably 'home-made', the machine looks fine.
I see it has a Prince 'P-tip' prop, which is a very good prop.

Did it ever have a registration? If not, it has not been through the 'system'.
If it had, you might tell us, if you can.
I'm not sure whether KB-2s were ever approved in the U.K. but it might have been put through as a Bensen.
The pod could be easily replaced with a Bensen-type tow-boom.
In fact, there may be a Bensen-type towboom underneath the pod.
I can see what was probably a gyroglider tow-hitch at the front, and also the
towing wire to the mast is still there.
I have no doubt the RR engineer knew his RRs well, but sone of the fascinations of a gyro are the differences from other flying machines.
Fixed-wingers frequently haven't a clue how gyros work, so get your info from gyro flyers whenever possible.
 
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