Canard ??

DaveJaksha

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Hi, All. I was looking at used gyros over at barnstormers, and there is a single place gyro for sale that has both vertical and horizontal stabilizers in the back. But in the front, is a horizontal "wing" that looks like a canard? Anyone that can in lighten me on this? Never seen it before.

Cheers,

Dave
 

jcarleto

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The machine was at Wrens Fly-in a few years ago. Gary Neal flew it. As it was rigged then, it was reported to be a tad pitch-unstable. It seemed to be so, viewed from the ground. I do not know if the stability issues have been corrected, but recognized the machine immediately from the barnstormers post.
 

phantom

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Most canard surfaces on a gyro are small and are there to nutrealize a down force from a cabin or windshield , if you have 20 pounds of down force you could put 20 pounds of downforce on a horizontal stabilizer but it is better put 15 pounds of lift on the nose and only 5 in downforce in the back, I have found that if you go much above 75 % in lift you will have a machine that you have to be working with to fly in rough air, I don't know how this would work with a gimbal head as my machines that I had a canard on all had a fixed spindle head which won't mask a stability problem the way the offset gimbal will.
Norm
 

scottessex

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I don't like it at all........No sir I don't like it.
 

ultracruiser41

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I agree with Scott. Not a good aerodynamic decision in my world.
 

DaveJaksha

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Pics of the gyro on on barnstormers. Search gyro planes...The canard is located near the thrust line, and I would estimate about 3 ft wide.

Cheers,

Dave
 

Doug Riley

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Canard airplanes in general are unstable. The Wright brothers' 1903 Flyer was the first example, but there have been countless more.

Rutan tamed the canard fixed-wing plane by moving the CG forward and arranging for the canard to stall before the main wing does. With this arrangement, a canard stall drops the nose -- a safe thing in a FW plane, but a very unsafe thing in a gyro. We don't want abrupt nose-drops, nor do we want the nose to rise when the gyro hits an updraft.

If your pod-windshield shape generates a nose-down load in cruising flight, why not re-shape it so that it doesn't? Raise the pilot's legs, let him/her sit back, rake the windshield. Aim for a pod whose profile is symmetrical, not downward-sloping.
 

C. Beaty

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True tail first airplanes are the equivalent of tail first arrows.

Burt Rutan’s designs were tandem wing airplanes with the center of lift, the summation of lift from both wings, trailing the CG.
 

phantom

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I have used them without any problems and it's because it is used as a trim device, there is still a large horizontal stabilizer to make it fly straight.
Norm.
 

Vance

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It is easy to remove.

It is easy to remove.

One of the nice things about that canard it is easy to saw off if you find you don’t like it.
 

DaveJaksha

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Norm,
Do you have some pics of gyros that are using your canards? Would
Really like to see them.

Thanks,

Dave
 

j bird

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On the Dominator's lower struts, you could add ribs and cover with aluminum, would create a small wing just about on the horizontal center of gravity. I wonder how that would effect the performance of the gyro. It would look cool.
 

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PW_Plack

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...if you have 20 pounds of down force you could put 20 pounds of downforce on a horizontal stabilizer but it is better put 15 pounds of lift on the nose and only 5 in downforce in the back...
Norm, yikes! The moment the nose drops enough for the canard to pass through zero angle of attack, the canard will very suddenly add to the uncommanded nose-down force.

Snap!

In contrast, the tail will only keep increasing its resistance to the forward tumble as it rises. Also, the tail is likely to be on a longer arm from CG, so it would result in less induced drag to solve the problem back there.
 

phantom

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Why would the nose drop? Remember that with a good horizontal stabilizer even a pod with a windshield and all the downforce created by it will still fly fine , if you take the windshield off it will still be ok and it you put little canards on to nutrealize the effect of the windshield yo end up with the same effect of removing the windshield .
Norm
 

Jean Claude

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Yes Paul,
The "canard" can remove the down torque of the windshield, but it inevitably reduces the stability produced by the tail.
 

RotoPlane

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I'm not sure what a "fixed spindle head" is but that may be why a canard works on Phantom's machines. A gimbaled rotorhead and a canard will not safely mix, but an non-gimbal headed rotorhead can work just fine with a large HS.

Norm: "My machines that I had a canard on all had a fixed spindle head which won't mask a stability problem the way the offset gimbal will."
 
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