Calidus crash video?

aviator_josh

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For those like myself that don't understand French, you can use the Google Chrome browser and it will translate those pages (not perfect, but you can get the gist of it). Here is a quote from the pilot Rene Brun:

Hello
I am in hospital in Annecy
2 broken vertebrae
3 sides broken
right shoulder blade The fractured The verriere opened takeoff closure was not enough committed René
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Déjà vu

There is a suggestion ( maybe incorrect ) that the canopy may have opened during the take off run - if so imagine the distraction and the change of weight balance/air flow at that critical moment.
 

SGK

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With regard to blade flap in the air. My Instructor in the UK. Tony Melody who has around 3,000hrs of instructing in gyros stated that he had experienced blade flap in the air with DW rotors. It did not progress, but the rotor would not accelerate, I believe he landed from this incident.

I and others during training at Little Rissington a few years ago witnessed one of our experienced members taking off in his Cricket to depart the field. He lifted off then levelled off and flew parallel to the runway. We thought he was building speed before climbing away.

At the end of the runway he passed over the hedge and disappeared from sight into the valley beyond. On his return he reported that all had seemed to go normally until he had lifted off. While still in ground effect the rotor did not accelerate. At some point he having committed himself to the take off just made it over the hedge and only with falling ground was he then able to put the stick forward and seemingly ‘unstick’ the blades which then seemed to accelerate normally. This again was with DW’s.
Would appreciate more info about this. Analyze? Anyone? Ground effect?

About Calidus roll - If it was flapping, wouldn't it pitch up abruptly and roll somewhat to the left.
 

aviator_josh

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Steve, You're right that the canopy came open on take-off. What would a good procedure be for this emergency? Keep in mind I'm not a gyro pilot (yet). A door coming open on a small plane is non-eventful. Just fly the plane and when able, close the door. I imagine in a gyro it's probably more significant.
 

phantom

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I have had a few high powered gyros with heavy rotors that could be forced into the air with low rotor rpm but light dragon wings will gain rpm very quick when the weight comes on them.
Norm
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
""Steve, You're right that the canopy came open on take-off. What would a good procedure be for this emergency?""

Was it "locked" and checked before take off. If so then the lock part has a fault. I'm not aware of any other similar probs with this model.

If not then the human pilot failed in his pre flight check process - this is easy to fix - CHECK.

We had a fatal in flight door open on a Magni M24 Orion a couple of years ago - these doors open upwards. The UK AAIB produced a detailed report and Magni had to revise the door lock system with microswitches.

Well worth a read and some ask if openness advances the sport. Incredible.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Magni gyroplane M24C Orion, G-CGTI 10-11.pdf
 

Vance

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Speculation based on my experience.

Speculation based on my experience.

Steve, You're right that the canopy came open on take-off. What would a good procedure be for this emergency? Keep in mind I'm not a gyro pilot (yet). A door coming open on a small plane is non-eventful. Just fly the plane and when able, close the door. I imagine in a gyro it's probably more significant.
I have not had the canopy in a Calidus come open in flight so I don’t know what would be the best thing to do Josh.

Part of my pre-takeoff list in the Cavalon is to check the doors.

If I flew a Calidus checking the canopy latch mechanism would be part of my preflight inspection and checking the canopy would be part of my pre-takeoff list.

If it did open in flight I would land.

As long as the canopy didn’t become detached from the aircraft I suspect it would be a nonevent unless I became distracted and mismanaged the flight controls.

It appears to me the shape of the canopy would keep it from opening very far; this is pure speculation on my part.

I do know from experience that if a door is left unlatched on the Cavalon it stays shut and is almost unnoticeable. I didn’t notice the passenger door being unlatched until the wind tried to suck my chart out the back of the door. That is why checking the doors is on my pre-takeoff check list. I was not successful at latching the door in flight and addressed it properly at my next fuel stop.

In my experience when blades flap the gyroplane shakes a lot and this could have caused the canopy to open in flight without being the cause of the accident.

I feel there was a similar blade flap accident in Texas with a new pilot doing touch and goes. It appears to me he decided to rotate at low rotor rpm at high indicated airspeed in gusting conditions. I would advise against this.

Regards, Vance
 

Doug Riley

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A gyro's rotor usually will fly the aircraft at an RRPM well below normal. This can result in the rotor hub's hammering the teeter stops.

I had it happen once on takeoff in my very light Gyrobee with Rotordyne blades. I was not far down the runway, so I just put the aircraft back down, scooted along the runway a bit with the rotor all the way back, and took off again without further issues.

The 'Bee lacks much tail rock-back (about three inches vs. 6-9" in similar-sized Bensen-style gyros), so the maximum achievable disk AOA with the tailwheel on the ground is less than in other gyros. This may lead to a slightly longer takeoff run if you don't have an aggressive (or any!) prerotator.
 

TNVD

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photos of broken mast - Rene claim that one of the tubes was broken just after the take-off, all the rest (canopy opened, strike of balde, etc) was after

also after this sad incident Rene advice all CALIDUS owners regularly inspect MAST :wave: for their own security


but I fully agree with you that Calidus canopy, doors of Cavalon, Magni M24, XENON (early versions) that open upwards are not designed for safety
 

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SandL

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Blade flap

Blade flap

Blade flap or sailing too much air passing through the disk for the disk angle.
blade stalls stick feels as if a huge weight is pushing it side to side.
reduce the air going through the disk and reduce the angle of the disk, throttle back and stick forward (may also need to hit the brakes if you have them.).
I have Dragon wings, I have felt the high speed flapalong with 2 others that Leigh is talking about. It happened as I was leaving the ground, it felt more like a vibration than a flap. recovery was not instant. it occoured quite some time ago so cant recall exactly the events, I just know to make sure I am not close to a sailing/flapping situation. I would not call this event flapping or sailing as there were no high stick forces involved and the gyro was controlable.

The viseo of the Calidus,
To me it appears airbourne (so flapping/sailing is very unlikely in my opinion), it appears to have a high nose attitude. It appears to torque roll to the right. I'm not sure why flapping comes into it and it does not look like a reduced G situation unless the stick was agressivly thrust forward as the pilot realised he was behind the curve.
If the mast was broken, as we are told then all bets are off as to what the stick is doing, what pitch angle he is at and what control inputs take place.

In my opinion the video does show quite a high ground speed for that pitch angle and rate of climb. At the very start of the video there is a wind sock showing very light (and so I suspect) variable wind direction. The sock appears to be a long way from the gyro so the wind speed and direction could be different where the gyro is, it could even be a down wind take off with an attempted climb inisiated too steeply, resulting in a behind the curve issue, followed by torque roll and mast breaking on impact. Blade speed and colour can be deceptive at these distances on a hot day (light refraction and shimmering) and with such a short low quality video it's not easy to define.
Not sure where the open canopy theory comes from, maybe others can see a canopy opened, or maybe the pilot is saying that, not only was the canopy open but also the mast broke. It is not uncommon for pilots to run through check lists, then have to reopen a canopy to reduce the green house effect due to over heating. thus one of the last things they do before take off is canopy closed and locked, line up and take off which is sometimes out of check list sequence.

.... now I wait to be shot down in flames !
 

SandL

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It also appears to Yaw left just before the roll right, We dont know how long the runway is , so not clear if he has just lifted off, or is doing a high speed pass, could be a high speed pass with a large boot full of left rudder, he just appears to have a very high ground speed to me
 

Vance

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I fully disagree.

I fully disagree.

but I fully agree with you that Calidus canopy, doors of Cavalon, Magni M24, XENON (early versions) that open upwards are not designed for safety
I fly a Cavalon and the doors will shut by themselves with even a ten knot wind on the nose.

I have flown with the passenger door unlatched and it is almost unnoticeable.

In my opinion the way doors operate was designed for safety.

Regards, Vance
 

eddie

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Looking at the broken mast pictures you can see the mast broke at a weld joint,the metal

probably lost its temper or became brittle because of the weld.I believe that welding

any where on the mast would be a very bad practice. This is where the practice of bolting

or riviting pieces together is the best thing to do,with regards at least to the mast itself.


Best regards,eddie.....
 

Vance

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The viseo of the Calidus,
To me it appears airbourne (so flapping/sailing is very unlikely in my opinion), it appears to have a high nose attitude. It appears to torque roll to the right. I'm not sure why flapping comes into it and it does not look like a reduced G situation unless the stick was agressivly thrust forward as the pilot realised he was behind the curve.
If the mast was broken, as we are told then all bets are off as to what the stick is doing, what pitch angle he is at and what control inputs take place.

In my opinion the video does show quite a high ground speed for that pitch angle and rate of climb. At the very start of the video there is a wind sock showing very light (and so I suspect) variable wind direction. The sock appears to be a long way from the gyro so the wind speed and direction could be different where the gyro is, it could even be a down wind take off with an attempted climb inisiated too steeply, resulting in a behind the curve issue, followed by torque roll and mast breaking on impact. Blade speed and colour can be deceptive at these distances on a hot day (light refraction and shimmering) and with such a short low quality video it's not easy to define.
Not sure where the open canopy theory comes from, maybe others can see a canopy opened, or maybe the pilot is saying that, not only was the canopy open but also the mast broke. It is not uncommon for pilots to run through check lists, then have to reopen a canopy to reduce the green house effect due to over heating. thus one of the last things they do before take off is canopy closed and locked, line up and take off which is sometimes out of check list sequence.

.... now I wait to be shot down in flames !
In my opinion an airfoil (blade) will stall when it passes the critical angle of attack Peter.

Chris is the one who suggested blade flap and I agree.

With enough indicated air speed I feel it is possible to lift off at low rotor RPM and flap the blades.

The pilot of the accident aircraft was the one who said the canopy opened.

It is all in previous posts on this thread.

I feel trying to draw conclusions about the cause of the accident with so little information lacks value.

Regards, Vance
 

cfibob

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It has been said this Calidus had been involved in a previous crash and repaired. Repaired to original standards? By who? If the canopy had been locked properly before takeoff I doubt even blade flap would/could open it. As to the mast breaking...also doubtful....unless this had been damaged and repaired improperly. If the pictures are true, It appears to have been torn just above/below a weld line not on the weld. I would have to bring the previous crash and repair to light before trying to determine a cause of this accident. The low quality four second video can only bring speculation. I've never experienced blade flap in the air...can it even be done?
 

TNVD

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It has been said this Calidus had been involved in a previous crash and repaired. Repaired to original standards? By who? If the canopy had been locked properly before takeoff I doubt even blade flap would/could open it. As to the mast breaking...also doubtful....unless this had been damaged and repaired improperly. If the pictures are true, It appears to have been torn just above/below a weld line not on the weld. I would have to bring the previous crash and repair to light before trying to determine a cause of this accident. The low quality four second video can only bring speculation. I've never experienced blade flap in the air...can it even be done?
it was completely new frame-must bought from Auto-Gyro and reparation done by Rene itself ... it is hard to judge now - but facts are facts (video, photo)

Inox will never brake on weld line, it will brake near welding line.

Rene comment that it is strange for him that one tube broken like glass and second tube is broken like plastic (fully deformed) - from this facts he make conclusion that one tube just brake in flight and after was strike of blade against tail tube and after canopy opened it is his version of truth (which no one will most probably will not know what happens in reality)
 

TNVD

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I fly a Cavalon and the doors will shut by themselves with even a ten knot wind on the nose.

I have flown with the passenger door unlatched and it is almost unnoticeable.

In my opinion the way doors operate was designed for safety.

Regards, Vance
XENON change design to make it more SAFE (new doors open as doors should open :usa2: )
 

Cammie Patch

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I think a canopy opening in flight in a Calidus would be really bad, so I have a couple of things that I do to make sure it doesn't happen.
First, I never close the canopy without latching it all the way. Never ever. Second, I check it prior to pre-rotating, and again prior to my takeoff roll. I have a flow check before I prerotate that starts on the latch, then goes to the switches (lights on #2 fuel pump on), then goes to the flight/brake switch. I don't have the checklist in my hand at this point, but if I have a passenger I will have them follow me with the checklist to ensure I didn't miss anything.
I have owned a fairly busy flight school for ten years now. We have had two insurance claims and both of those were with experienced CFIs onboard. One flight was the classic getting distracted and forgetting to put the gear down, and the other was starting the engine with the tow bar still attached. Complacency is the culprit. I've never had a student pilot damage anything! So, we should treat ourselves like we are student pilots, check, double-check, then check again.

TL;DR: I like to check the canopy a lot.
 

JAL

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it was completely new frame-must bought from Auto-Gyro and reparation done by Rene itself ... it is hard to judge now - but facts are facts (video, photo)

Inox will never brake on weld line, it will brake near welding line.

Rene comment that it is strange for him that one tube broken like glass and second tube is broken like plastic (fully deformed) - from this facts he make conclusion that one tube just brake in flight and after was strike of blade against tail tube and after canopy opened it is his version of truth (which no one will most probably will not know what happens in reality)
That could also be explained by the sequence in which the accident occurred.

After first flapping the blades the inner tube broke off at the weld then the outer tube broke when the mast hit the ground. The first would have been a nice clean break and the second would have first been deformed as the mast hit the ground absorbing the impact to the point of failure. Having the mast fail this way might ultimately have been what saved him as it would have dissipated more energy on impact then if the inner tube didn't fail inflight.
 
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Kolibri

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I marvel at the faithful rendition of these RC Calidus gyros.
Their attention to structural detail is impressive.


1144518

1144519
 
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