Bush Wheels / Baloon Tires ? Off Airport

Spraypilot

FLY IT ON !!
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Is anyone running oversize tires for gravelbar or beach landing on the MTO or M 16 for STOL operations?
 

twistair

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Here are a naked MTO and a Calidus both on tundra wheels. Ca. 15 mph less cruise, less ROC, much better for sand beach, not that much for gravel. Longitudal stability is affected (tundra wheels are heavier that regular ones thus CG lowered, CD also lowered).

MTObesen.jpg
 
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eutrophicated1

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less ROC?????????????

CD also lowered??????? Love these guessing games.............

But I get it now. If the more experienced pilots really gave a shit about gaining and keeping new members, they'd spell out these acronyms.

Its really all about the status of knowing so many of these acronyms, isn't it. I'm an eighth grader, an' you're a sixth grader, nah, nah.
 

farmboy

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eutrophicated1;n1125548 said:
less ROC?????????????

CD also lowered??????? Love these guessing games.............

But I get it now. If the more experienced pilots really gave a **** about gaining and keeping new members, they'd spell out these acronyms.

Its really all about the status of knowing so many of these acronyms, isn't it. I'm an eighth grader, an' you're a sixth grader, nah, nah.

CD = Center of Drag?, ROC, I think, means Return On Credit?
 
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Spraypilot

FLY IT ON !!
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twistair;n1125542 said:
Here are a naked MTO and a Calidus both on tundra wheels. Ca. 15 mph less cruise, less ROC, much better for sand beach, not that much for gravel. Longitudal stability is affected (tundra wheels are heavier that regular ones thus CG lowered, CD also lowered).


Looks like FUN !! Where is the Calidus Pic?
 

Uncle Willie

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Good writing techniques state that the first time you use an acronym in your document,
the words should be written out in full with the short form placed in parenthesis immediately after.

Examples:

Center of Gravity(CG)
Coefficient of Drag(C[SUB]D[/SUB])
Rate of Climb(ROC)
Made to Order(MTO)
 

Vance

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It has been my experience that while a gyroplane has an exceptionally short landing roll the takeoff distance required to clear a 50 foot obstacle flying near gross weight with little wind tends to be long making short takeoff and landing (STOL) operations challenging.

It is my observation that most gyroplanes don’t land downwind well and a downwind takeoff tends to be protracted further complicating STOL operations.
 

Eric S

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Land out? = Yes!
STOL? = No
Short landings - Long takeoffs
Similar to float plane ops. You can get into places you can't get out of.
 

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fara

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Spraypilot;n1125578 said:
OH Brother My post that was intended for a nice discussion on gyros set up for off airport landings has been hijacked by the English literature police

Yeah welcome to the forum.
Anyway, I don't know if there is a big advantage with large tires on a gyro for soft field operations. The landing speed should be so slow, I can't really see it there. For takeoff, if the rotors are pre-rotated enough, you should get light on the wheels quickly anyway and the front wheel should be lifted for soft field takeoff. In fact with big tires, the takeoff run should be longer because it will have more friction on the ground and less acceleration. The disadvantage would be in more drag that will reduce climb rate and speed and increased fuel burn.
 

Eric S

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fara;n1125610 said:
Yeah welcome to the forum.
Anyway, I don't know if there is a big advantage with large tires on a gyro for soft field operations. The landing speed should be so slow, I can't really see it there. For takeoff, if the rotors are pre-rotated enough, you should get light on the wheels quickly anyway and the front wheel should be lifted for soft field takeoff. In fact with big tires, the takeoff run should be longer because it will have more friction on the ground and less acceleration. The disadvantage would be in more drag that will reduce climb rate and speed and increased fuel burn.

Without big tires, you get this...
 

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dabkb2

Dave Bacon
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I have a KB3 , in stock configuration it has 4" rims and about 8" total tire size. Ken Brock did this to lower the weight to keep it under 254lbs. With a smaller tire Ken prebent the axle to maintain keel angle. The small tire did not work very good on the dirt runway I use, so I changed it out for a 6" rim and larger tire and it worked better on the runway. The problem with gyros that I have found is if you change one thing you have to change something else, and this was no exception. It worked great the bigger tire handled the bumps very good, the problem was it took over 2000' to get off the ground. With the bigger tires it changed the keel angle from level to about 4* nose down. That took 4* away from the rotor disk angel. It was fine once in the air, but on the ground it took much longer to get the blades up to speed. To fix the problem I put the axle on top of the keel bringing the keel back to level when sitting on the front wheel. Gyros are unique machines with unique parameters, if you change something you should know what you are doing. Just by adding larger tires to the mains will not get you off the ground sooner. Just a word to the newbies out there, be careful
 

dabkb2

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Just a word to the newbies out there be careful
 

Jungleman

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Hi Spraypilot.
I am running an M16 down here in NZ on big tyres. Rears are 26”””” inch Alaskan Bushwheels/Beringer ultralites running at 6psi.
The nose wheel is a Sportcopter suspension assembly.
I operate mostly in the NZ back country. I wouldn’t go back to the standard tyres. Bit like Alaska down here minus
the bears of course.

Cons
Have added 16kg ( that includes the step rail mod) This added weight can be offset in most cases by reducing cookie & desert intake. Most of my flying is on my own & use back seat to carry my lunch, ( Low calorie lunch of course to help out with the above reduction)
Lost about 4 knots so an extra 150/200 rpm to make up for that.
Lost approx 100 fpm climb performance.
A bit of a lighter wallet.

Pros
Often pillow soft takeoffs / landings & great taxi.
Increased ground clearance so greater flare angle for closer to zero speed landings onto rough ground in calm conditions & for lifting off on rough ground earlier at slower air speeds.
The increased ground clearance lessens the chance of prop swirl picking up small stones, grass, sticks etc. ( Added a step rail because of the increase in height)
A lot less cow s..t splattered onto the Horozontal Stab.
Glydes over unseen rabbit holes. ( No Badgers in NZ, they could pose a problem though)
The Beringer brakes hold well up to the Magni max recomended 280rpm pre rotation.
Generally make it a lot easier on man & machine.
And great to sit on while having your lunch.

Cheers
Jm
 
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Jungleman

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Jungleman

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Pics for my post above. For some reason I cant load higher resolution.
The pic with the pea gravel was a landing in calm conditions with a short ground roll. As can be seen the nose wheel broke through the gravel where as the 26” rears stayed on top with very little indentation. With an 85 kg pilot the nose wheel had 65 kg on it & the rears 175 kg on each.
 
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Jason312

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This is an older thread but there isn't much info out there on gyro's set up for bush/off airport operations.
There are a couple pics of an MTO and a Calidus with large wheels. Then there is Junglman's M16 that looks awesome and he has nothing but good to say about it (except for the expected added weight and drag that affects any aircraft with large tires).

I understand landing isn't the issue but instead it's taking off, especially if loaded heavy. Obviously the takeoff will have to be calculated prior to landing so I don't get stranded. The 915 should help this a lot!
I've heard negative comments about them not having suspension and not handling rough unprepared surfaces well but not from anyone who's actually tried it with large tires like Jungleman who says it's "pillow soft."
This type of flying is very appealing to me and would be a major part of my mission. This makes it difficult to purchase a gyro over an airplane but I really prefer rotorcraft.

I am planning to purchase a 2 seat side x side with the 915 in a couple months. I'm liking the AG915 but have not ruled out the Magni M24. I won't be able to fly either one for a couple months. The Sport Copter 2 is too expensive and their M2 is just a concept. I flew in the Cavalon but WOW it has a TON of stick shake! That excess vibration can't be easy on component life.

I would like to set up the gyro like Jungleman's M16. There are lots of cool places here in Utah and Idaho I want to explore. I'll probably eventually get skis for winter too. I would love floats too but they may not be practical in my high density altitude. Anyone flying floats in high DA that can comment?

Is there anyone else out there doing this kind of flying with their gyro? I would love to hear more input from those experienced with this type of setup and operation.
Do you have video's or pics?

Thanks,
Jason
 
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