Building Mariah Gale

PW_Plack

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Pretty soon the schedule will accelerate because it's taking up room in the shop! Good to see her coming along.
 

All_In

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That does look strong buddy!

Very professional build Vance nothing amateur about it at all!

I'm really enjoying your build!!!!!
 

Vance

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One step at a time.

One step at a time.

Thank you Paul,

It does take up a lot of room in the shop.

The torch won’t reach from one end to the other.

Jim is going to have to unbolt some stuff from the floor to make room.

It is going to have to go partially outside to manage things and wind or rain will make welding difficult.


Thank you John,

If we knew more about what we were doing Mariah Gale would probably weigh less.

We always compromise on the side of strength and longevity.

I am pleased with the strength of the keel but it weighs 21 pounds. We have a little trimming to do but the interface between the frame and the keel will add some pounds.

I am very pleased with how straight and square everything is.

Jim is very good at managing the distortion from welding and all the joints fit very well.

We are having a lot of fun even though progress is a little slow.


Hello John K,

I forgot to mention we tried welding on the strut and it seems to weld fine. I am sure it would need to be heat treated but the welds looked good. I talked to the junkyard that sold me the material and it is from a 1962 Cessna 172.


We are going to make a fabricated receptacle for the root to fit in. The peice that holds the axel will be an insert. We have no plans for welding to the strut at this time.


We have 51 hours invested in her since the last pictures and it is a little hard to see.

Everything is finished welded and we did some twisting and bracing.

The pedals and toe brakes are finished and finished welded.

It will be a big step when we get her up on her landing gear with the engine hung and the empennage on.

We ordered the material for the interface but the weight and balance will take a lot of careful guesses about the weight and CG of missing components.

Thank you, Vance
 

StanFoster

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Vance- I just drool at the tail assembly table and how everything comes off the 2d layouts into 3d. Plus you are building a very torsionally strong frame as it passes your applied torque testing.

Very upper end work I must say. It takes an "adVanced" mind...pun intended....to see this project through.

Stan
 

All_In

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Not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
I know in aircraft light weight is better but you have the horsepower to make it stronger over lighter without doing a lot of destructive testing to figure out the lightest weight for the strength required for each part.
 

SgurlEd

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Ask Vance's log book
"Creative Minds Melding!"

"Creative Minds Melding!"

Wow...Mariah Gale has come a long way!

I am totally impressed with the welds That baby looks hella tough!

By the way...your pictures look awesome. I agree with Stan I too love the way it goes from the pattern on the board to three dimensional rightbefore your eyes...It's probably a good thing I don't go with you I'd be in the way of you and Jim's "Creative Minds Melding!"

Keep up the Good work it won't be long now!

Are you gonna head out and go flying...the Fog has lifted?!

Love, Ed
 

Resasi

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Does a Bear wander in the woods, he may be up there already Ed.:)

As always a delight to watch something like this take shape as well as to have the privilege of being allowed to hear the creators thought processes as it does so.
 

All_In

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Hi Ed!!

Does a Bear wander in the woods, he may be up there already Ed.:)

As always a delight to watch something like this take shape as well as to have the privilege of being allowed to hear the creators thought processes as it does so.
Hi Leigh!!!

I know I've learned so much from his thread!!! :cool:
 

SgurlEd

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Does a Bear wander in the woods, he may be up there already Ed.:)

As always a delight to watch something like this take shape as well as to have the privilege of being allowed to hear the creators thought processes as it does so.
Resasi...You are too right he probably is...he was up at 3:30am seeing that there was fog everywhere and he says...well Looks Like I won't get to go flying in the morning like I wanted.

It's a quarter to 9am and the fog is lifting so I suspect he'll go down to the airport and polish that beautiful prop and use his new Windshield Bug cleaner and then hit the skies to the Sprit of San Luis for lunch!

It's been a while since he's got to romance the skies! I should be jealous but I'm not! :p Nobody enjoys life Like Vance!

Cheers! Ed
 

Vance

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Joy in Life.

Joy in Life.

Thank you Stan,

One of my joys in life is to imagine something with a purpose, quantifying the parameters, test in my mind, experiment with alternate solutions and then turn it to metal. It is a plus when it turns out my imagination is related to reality. This is sometimes not the case.

I suspect you do the same thing with stairs.

I am fortunate to have friends like Jim, Smokey, Mike and Vince. They often curb my imagination and help me to steer a more pleasant course.

Jim is doing a remarkable job. It is large stack of projects that need to interface well. There are times when we just stop and ponder how much fun we are having and how fortunate we are to be in a position to dream and then endeavor to impose reality. We have each created a lot of scrap on our journey through life and it is has not always been fun.


Jim and I love destructive testing John. We have done a lot of non destructive testing. The trouble is we don’t know how strong it needs to be. We are both sure that the third one we build will be much better. As old as we are we do not expect to get to that third one and we are moving as fast as we can to build the first one.

Thank you, Vance
 

Vance

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When the weather is ready.

When the weather is ready.

Hello Ed,

I am glad you like her.

The fog seems to have descended.

SMX ATIS has the ceiling at 800 feet.

The Predator is ready to go as soon as the weather is.

I need to do a maintenance flight and a through preflight before I am free.


Thank you Leigh,

Ed tends to be optimistic about the weather. There was blue sky and sunshine but it was fleeting.

Creator is a big word; I am more comfortable with facilitator.

Mariah Gale is sort of a copy of the Predator and I am not alone in problem solving and am not doing much of the fabrication. It is a team effort.

I find value in sharing the process with my friends on the forum.


Time will tell if what you have learned has value John. I am pleased you are having fun with the process.


Perhaps we can fly together tomorrow after work Ed. I am having fun.

Thank you, Vance
 

choppergabor

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Looking mighty strong Vance. In my book there is no such thing as too safe :) But than again.....my book has only one page in it and even that's blank so it gives me a bit of leeway for improvising :)
 

Vance

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A visit to Hollister!

A visit to Hollister!

I visited Vince and to help with our weight and balance he is going to get some Kevlar, carbon fiber mix cloth and lay up a square foot with one, two three and four layers so we can weigh them and calculate the weight for the entire empennage. We can also get a feeling for the strength so we know how much to use where.

He has some spare time and is hoping to get these done by the end of the week.

He continues to refine the plug for the mold and we figured out how to manage the radius at the base of the vertical stabilizer in a more elegant way.

The recess is for where the cover on the keel connects to the empennage and covers up the six mounting bolts.

The pieces of metal bonded to the edges in the pictures are to reduce distortion and will be removed before it is used as a plug.

We also came up with some ideas on how to manage the hinge on the rudder. We plan on using three stock Mooney hinges.

We do not yet have a scheme we find satisfactory for rudder control.

Thank you, Vance
 

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Friendly

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Those are some great looking welds on the frame.Now the body work. That will be a very special gyro when finished.
 

Des Garvin

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Looking great Vance, one question what is the area of the rudder its self. Thinking of the rudder power in the event of a engine out landing. May be one of the more knowing people will chime in for Vance on this one.
Cheers Des Garvin.
 

Vance

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If it were that simple.

If it were that simple.

Hello Mark,

I wish it were that simple.

There is still attaching the keel to the airframe, the rudder control, the rotor control, the stick, the floor, the mast, the pre-rotator pump drive, fabricating the fuel tank, plumbing, wiring, the panel, the seats, seat belts and on and on.

So far so good.

In my opinion we have completed quite a list of projects.

Thank you, Vance
 

Vance

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Soliciting consul.

Soliciting consul.

Looking great Vance, one question what is the area of the rudder its self. Thinking of the rudder power in the event of a engine out landing. May be one of the more knowing people will chime in for Vance on this one.
Cheers Des Garvin.
Hello Des, that is an excellent question.

The first part of the excellent question is do we count the Vertical stabilizer and rudder as one piece or is the rudder separate.

The vertical stabilizer and rudder together are 12.41 square feet. The moment arm from the center of gravity to the 25% chord line is 6.92 square feet so measuring it that way the vertical stabilizer and rudder volume is 85.86 square feet.

The rudder itself is 4.51 square feet and to the 25% chord line is 8.91 feet for a volume of 40.2 square feet for the rudder alone.

I wish I could tell you that all means something to me but it does not.

The decision on the rudder and vertical stabilizer was made based on the Predators Vertical stabilizer and rudder area with a little over 6 inches added to the moment arm.

The Vertical stabilizer and rudder are an airfoil shape instead of a flat plate which I feel should add to the rudders effectiveness.

We are also working harder at sealing the gap between the rudder and the vertical stabilizer which in my opinion will also add to the effectiveness of the rudder.

This of course is based on a lot of conjecture about the location of the center of gravity.

I would naturally be grateful for any guidance or suggestions in this department.

Thank you, Vance
 

StanFoster

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Vance- It is my feeling that your rudder/stabilizer do indeed act as one airfoil during an engine out. I would think the rudder increasing the camber would draw combined lift off the stabilizer, especially with your gap sealing, and your effective tail volume is indeed increased from pulling lift off the stabilizer. Would you not then roughly figure the moment arm at roughly 25% of the combined depth of the stabilizer/ rudder? Stan
 

Vance

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I don't know!

I don't know!

I think of the vertical stabilizer and rudder as one cambered airfoil and when I speak of the 25% chord I am thinking of it as a whole.

It is all mute since I don’t know what the volume should be.

It has been suggested that having the horizontal stabilizer on the bottom limits rudder authority in an engine out vertical descent.

Having the horizontal stabilizer on the bottom on the Predator gives me some features I like.

I have trouble imagining the horizontal stabilizer having much effect on yaw or the rudder authority.

I am at the edge of my skill set knowing how to calculate rudder volume.

It is part of why I go to gyroplane events so I can see what gyroplanes that work are doing.

In my opinion Mariah Gale will have more rudder volume than any pusher gyroplane I have seen including the ones with the twin rudders.

If it turns out she doesn’t have enough rudder authority we will rebuild the keel and move the entire empennage back because it would be easier than starting over on the tail.

This is a part of why I hope to have a qualified engineering test pilot test her instead someone like me who is not technically astute or particularly experienced with different gyroplanes.

I feel that the Predator has managed big winds and turbulence and I will feel we have succeeded if Mariah Gale handles winds as well.

In my fantasy Mariah Gale’s body shape will fight with the rudder less than on the Predator giving me the sensation of more rudder authority.

Thank you, Vance
 

Resasi

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You are the director behind what is fabricated.

You who will ride and guide the creation.
 
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