Bensen Days 2022

AirScooter

Scott Waggoner
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I think I will attend Maxie's tech talk, and Mikes balancing class. Do we know how long they will be?
 

cmb

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Hi Scott, I would anticipate about an hour each.
See you there!
 

icanflyitto

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Bensen Days Seminar Schedule

Currently the plan is to have Mike Goodrich's GWS Presentation either late Thursday evening or early Friday morning so anyone attending the presentation will have ample time to setup a demo flight with Silverlight to experience a GWS in an AR-1.

Maxie Wilde's Tech Talk will be on Friday, as well as Mike's Understanding rotor vibrations & basic dynamic balancing class.

The Gyro talk, for those new to Gyroplanes, will likely be conducted on both Thursday and Friday.

No seminars are scheduled for Saturday as this would detract from the main events of the day.

We welcome any thoughts with respect to the timing as we sort out the schedule, also feel free to reply here and let us know if you plan to attend any of these seminars. If we have ample response we may hold some of these twice (Thursday and Friday).
I will be attending and want to sit in on these learning sessions. Learning is a good thing
 

ultracruiser41

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I’M GETTING EXCITED!!!!!
😁👍🏻
 

cmb

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I'm happy to announce that I'll be able to offer a rotor vibration analysis for any gyro at Bensen Days this year with the assistance of Mike Goodrich!

This evaluation will entail:

1) The owner fixing the PB4 accelerometers and tachometer to their gyro under our supervision.
2) A pre-flight briefing.
3) A short flight (5 – 10 minutes) by the owner to capture data.
4) Disassembly of the PB4.
5) A debrief with a copy of the polar chart and vibration spectral analysis.

We will not be offering to balance rotors because it's too time consuming and there would be too many distractions during Bensen Days.
For those interested It's probably best to do these Wednesday - Friday.

We will be asking $100 for each analysis.

-Chris Buchanan
 

Mike G

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Tom Duncan and Sv.grainne

Chris and I were already considering doing a video of my GWS presentation and Chris’s rotor vibration analysis of different rotors. The main problem being making a video of sufficiently good quality that it doesn’t degrade the subject. We’ve all seen terrible YouTube videos that we would have watched till the end if the video had been more professional but stopped half way through. If we find a solution, then these videos would be available to all the public not just a small group like the PRA.

We wouldn’t make a video of the “Understanding rotor vibrations & basic dynamic balancing” class available to the public because I have done these classes in the past and it would be unfair on those who have previously participated and paid for a session. Also if the class was available for free on the internet, nobody would pay to attend and there wouldn’t be a class at all.

Mike G
 

Abid

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I think I will attend Maxie's tech talk, and Mikes balancing class. Do we know how long they will be?

Mike is not giving a balancing class. Its just an intro seminar. You can't learn balancing in an hour. He does a 2 day class and I think it should be more like 2.5 days if there are more than 4 people because every time there is one and sometimes two students who already know everything and they have to be convinced that actually need to accept they don't know the subject matter and learn.
 
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Abid

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I'm happy to announce that I'll be able to offer a rotor vibration analysis for any gyro at Bensen Days this year with the assistance of Mike Goodrich!

This evaluation will entail:

1) The owner fixing the PB4 accelerometers and tachometer to their gyro under our supervision.
2) A pre-flight briefing.
3) A short flight (5 – 10 minutes) by the owner to capture data.
4) Disassembly of the PB4.
5) A debrief with a copy of the polar chart and vibration spectral analysis.

We will not be offering to balance rotors because it's too time consuming and there would be too many distractions during Bensen Days.
For those interested It's probably best to do these Wednesday - Friday.

We will be asking $100 for each analysis.

-Chris Buchanan

Chris
Reference Analysis:
Are you saying you will hook up a balancer on each gyro and fly it for 10 minutes to capture X, Y axis point data and actually give them how bad their no stick shake gyro really is at the rotor-head with 2 axis accelerometer actually measuring numbers right at the head?
I just balanced a newly built 915 powered AR-1 for 70 knots and 300 pounds of sample load to 0.05 and 0.1 IPS using move lines we developed for Averso Stella on AR-1. The stick felt very nice to begin with but the readings told us it was 0.3 to 0.4 IPS and needed a little work. You can't tell much difference on the stick but I know the balance is good now than before at the rotor head.
People are always going off about stick shake and do not realize that may feel ok but your rotors still may need a bit of work
 
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cmb

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Fara,

Essentially Yes, however my intention is primarily to inform owners if they would benefit from a full Rotor Track and Balance (RTB) session.

Again, which we will not be able to do in the limited time we have at Bensen Days. Thus the evaluation service can help the most amount of owners determine a course of action, if required, in the limited time available.

Chris Buchanan
 

Abid

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Fara,

Essentially Yes, however my intention is primarily to inform owners if they would benefit from a full Rotor Track and Balance (RTB) session.

Again, which we will not be able to do in the limited time we have at Bensen Days. Thus the evaluation service can help the most amount of owners determine a course of action, if required, in the limited time available.

Chris Buchanan
I see. It’s like a tease man. A tease. :)
 

Mike G

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Abid

It could just be a question of a difference in usage of a common vocabulary but I’m not very happy with your use of the word “tease”. For me it implies that something underhand is going on and that Chris is trying to seduce owners with a vibration analysis to be able to sell a full rotor track and balance. Chris has been very clear he/we don’t intend to do any balancing, if we find a rotor that needs it the work will go to whoever locally (perhaps you??) can do the work for them.

As Chris said the aim is simply to carry out the same first flight that you must do for every rotor you track and balance (RTB). This allows you/us to simply see if an RTB is necessary from the polar chart and if the 2/rev, prop and engine vibrations are typical or not from the frequency spectrum.

I would also say that if any owner who profits from Chris’s offer also attends the “Understanding rotor vibrations & basic dynamic balancing“ class they should be able to diagnose for themselves if any further work is needed without any influence from Chris or me.

Regarding stick shake I’m not sure what point you are making, if you are saying that stick shake and rotor vibrations are not necessarily related, I agree. You can have a perfectly tracked and balanced rotor with horrendous stick shake. This isn’t part of the “Understanding rotor vibrations & basic dynamic balancing” class but it’s always one of the questions that comes up in the question/answer session afterwards.

Mike G
 

Abid

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Abid

It could just be a question of a difference in usage of a common vocabulary but I’m not very happy with your use of the word “tease”. For me it implies that something underhand is going on and that Chris is trying to seduce owners with a vibration analysis to be able to sell a full rotor track and balance. Chris has been very clear he/we don’t intend to do any balancing, if we find a rotor that needs it the work will go to whoever locally (perhaps you??) can do the work for them.

As Chris said the aim is simply to carry out the same first flight that you must do for every rotor you track and balance (RTB). This allows you/us to simply see if an RTB is necessary from the polar chart and if the 2/rev, prop and engine vibrations are typical or not from the frequency spectrum.

I would also say that if any owner who profits from Chris’s offer also attends the “Understanding rotor vibrations & basic dynamic balancing“ class they should be able to diagnose for themselves if any further work is needed without any influence from Chris or me.

Regarding stick shake I’m not sure what point you are making, if you are saying that stick shake and rotor vibrations are not necessarily related, I agree. You can have a perfectly tracked and balanced rotor with horrendous stick shake. This isn’t part of the “Understanding rotor vibrations & basic dynamic balancing” class but it’s always one of the questions that comes up in the question/answer session afterwards.

Mike G

Hi Mike:
No I know Chris was clear in the FB post. Here was actually not so clear (at least to me) and that's why I asked to make sure people understand what is being offered so its not taken as underhanded because of misunderstanding. $100 cannot get anyone a full RTB job. You can't even get your prop balanced for that.

I have little interest in doing balancing for other brands except for friends. We are busy enough just to handle our own stuff. I think Chris is the right guy to do those. I think $350 - $400 is just barely enough to do such balancing. Its a very very fair price. A proper balance job can take up half a day, sometimes more. Unless you have move lines developed which I doubt anyone does.

Stick Shake and RTB: Yes that's what I mean. People are always 100% attributing stick shake to RTB. They can be but certainly not necessarily related. You can have a nicely balanced rotor and have pretty good amount of shake and vice-versa.

A lot of this mythical connection is because of lack of understanding on the actual variety of reasons why stick can shake and RTB is just one of them and certainly to be checked first when you see this symptom.
 

AirScooter

Scott Waggoner
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Mike is not giving a balancing class. Its just an intro seminar. You can't learn balancing in an hour. He does a 2 day class and I think it should be more like 2.5 days if there are more than 4 people because every time there is one and sometimes two students who already know everything and they have to be convinced that actually need to accept they don't know the subject matter and learn.
You mean I can't learn to balance in fifteen minutes? What? Okay...How about thirty minutes? Lol.
I understand that it is a "Understanding" talk.
Look forward to seeing you there.
 

PeterFromLA

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Stick Shake and RTB: Yes that's what I mean. People are always 100% attributing stick shake to RTB. They can be but certainly not necessarily related. You can have a nicely balanced rotor and have pretty good amount of shake and vice-versa.
If this is the case, why are you necessarily assuming my rotor is badly out of track based on a shaky video of my cockpit?

I am not saying you are not correct, but it would be a guess on the viewer's part.
 

Abid

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If this is the case, why are you necessarily assuming my rotor is badly out of track based on a shaky video of my cockpit?

I am not saying you are not correct, but it would be a guess on the viewer's part.

Its my guess though and I am always right :).
No your shake coincides with 1/rev frequency far too closely
 

Mike G

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Abid
Good to see we're on the same page, subtleties in English English and American English aren't always the same.

Peter looking at you 28 Jan video, I agree with Abid, the 1/rev stick shake is quite visible.

Mike G
 

Abid

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Abid
Good to see we're on the same page, subtleties in English English and American English aren't always the same.

Peter looking at you 28 Jan video, I agree with Abid, the 1/rev stick shake is quite visible.

Mike G

Well I tried to correct Tyre with tire, colour with color and tomotoe with tomato but the English just don't listen :). Plus they insist with starting each paragraph with an indented tab instead of left aligned.
 
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