Bensen control stick

Sanko26

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Does anybody have experience with the original control stick which is coming from above directly fron the hub? Can be the same feeling to control the gyro or more difficult?
 

Brian Jackson

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Hi Sanko.

The "Overhead Stick" you are referring to is a direct rotor control rather than the conventional linked systems. The inputs are exactly opposite. In other words, pulling back on the stick of a conventional system pitches the rotor aft, but doing the same with an overhead stick will pitch the rotor forward. Same with left and right. There are quite a few discussions on this subject here on the forum that you can find via search. Of note is a study regarding which pilots found it more difficult and which did not.
 

Sanko26

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Hi Sanko.

The "Overhead Stick" you are referring to is a direct rotor control rather than the conventional linked systems. The inputs are exactly opposite. In other words, pulling back on the stick of a conventional system pitches the rotor aft, but doing the same with an overhead stick will pitch the rotor forward. Same with left and right. There are quite a few discussions on this subject here on the forum that you can find via search. Of note is a study regarding which pilots found it more difficult and which did not.
I may build a B8M and I have no objection to overhead stick. Even it's easier to build. Are there any differences between the B8 gyroglider and B8M concerning to airframe,hangpoint etc ?
 

Doug Riley

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Bensen's "default" practice was to include an overhead stick in your gyro kit. The joystick (floor-mounted conventional airplane stick) was an extra-cost add-on. At that time, hang gliders had barely come into use and powered trikes were unknown. The motion of the Bensen stick was VERY backwards compared to everything else that flew at the time.

Those of us whose first piloting aviation experience was in a Bensen overhead-stick gyro wondered what the fuss was about, though. The sense of motion of the overhead is very intuitive if you "model" it correctly in your mind. The inverted "T" formed by the horizontal handlebar and the vertical shaft of the stick is a representation of the mast and axle of your gyro. Tilt this "model" the way you want the gyro frame to tilt. E.g. nose down is top-of-mast forward and bottom-of-mast back. Move the stick just that way. A left bank is left side of axle low, right side high. Again, move the stick that way.

Trikes have the same control motions, so the overhead control is not as much of an outlier as it once was. The "secret" is to internalize the notion that control motions are arcs, not lines. That is, an aircraft control column is a spoke of a steering wheel. With a joystick, you hold the top half of the control circle. With an overhead, you hold the bottom half of the same circle. A given control input (clockwise or counterclockwise around the circle) is the same with either system.

You can't fight history,, though. Those with aircraft experience have reflexes that cause them to push the wrong way in the real world. Many crashes have resulted. And it's impossible to get gyro training using an overhead. The best you could do would be to take trike lessons.

Rest in peace, you good, light, cheap, reliable old overhead stick.
 

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Jazzenjohn

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I have had a couple gyros with overhead sticks Sanko26. You can read about it, along with how I transitioned to using them, starting on post#90 here: https://www.rotaryforum.com/threads/pile-o-parts.17002/page-5

Since then I have switched back to a regular pump handle stick mostly because, although I had no problems flying the O/H stick, it was not as relaxing and fun to fly as it took much more attention to fly it. Would it have become second nature if I had continued with it? I don't know. The weight penalty compared to the pump handle stick I'm using now is pretty small. The walking beam sticks often have a problem with the pivots loosening up over time and they get sloppy. That doesn't happen on an O/H stick, but it rarely happens on a pump handle stick too.
 

wolfy

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I was flying hang gliders and trike's before gyro's and still fly trike's to tow hang gliders. People have asked me how I jump out of the gyro into the trike to tow someone then back in the gyro for a fly, I don't have a problem with it and don't even think about it because they are so different. But when asked I just say that in a trike/overhead control I just vision myself as the joystick as in the bar/T bar stay's still while I move my weight in the direction I want to go. Make's it so intuitive.
This video was a few years ago, I was towing gliders then jumped into the gyro for the first gyro flight of the day.

wolfy
 

Sanko26

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I was flying hang gliders and trike's before gyro's and still fly trike's to tow hang gliders. People have asked me how I jump out of the gyro into the trike to tow someone then back in the gyro for a fly, I don't have a problem with it and don't even think about it because they are so different. But when asked I just say that in a trike/overhead control I just vision myself as the joystick as in the bar/T bar stay's still while I move my weight in the direction I want to go. Make's it so intuitive.
This video was a few years ago, I was towing gliders then jumped into the gyro for the first gyro flight of the day.

wolfy
Awesome skills Wolfy! Is it a B8M? Althought I know it's a gyro forum, but let me show a video about one of my favourite flight with my paratrike at the place where I was growing up:

I wanna do the same, when the weather is windy,that's why I'm interested in gyro! :)
 

Resasi

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That’s some awesome mustering skills there Wolfie, you didn’t have to trim foliage, just chase the buggers out from under the tree.
 

giro5

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I had about 400 hours with conventional control stick or wheel in general aviation aircraft when I started lessons in a trike. It took me 6 hours to solo in the trike and once on landing during training after a bounce I instinctively reverted back to the stick impulse instead of the correct trike response. I would say after about 10 -15 hours of flying the trike my instinct reaction was good with flying the trike. If you do not have any experience with flying a stick and start out with the control bar you won't have a problem but believe me if you have been flying a stick it will take some time to get used to the control bar if a problem happens on take off or landing.
 

giro5

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One way to get used to the control bar for left and right turns is to take a broom handle and practice turning your head in the direction you want to turn and move both hands and the broom handle in the opposite direction. For up and down you just have to think about it and push or pull the broom handle in the correct direction. For left and right turns the bar moves more than the movement for up and down usually on a trike. I can't say for a gyro. On my gyro the control stick movements are very slight and I make an input and go back to center for turns.. Or said another way on my gyro ( a KB 2 ) I do not hold the control inputs in constantly for turns but then I don't make really steep banking turns either.
 

giro5

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In the picture posted by Doug Riley that gyro has one of those cheap plastic fuel tanks. That person obviously has no experience with a crash or fire. I would recommend any one with one of these plastic tanks get rid of them and use a metal tank and no plastic anywhere in the fuel system. I have first hand experience with plastic in a fire and it will melt in 30 seconds or less.
 
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wolfy

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One way to get used to the control bar for left and right turns is to take a broom handle and practice turning your head in the direction you want to turn and move both hands and the broom handle in the opposite direction. For up and down you just have to think about it and push or pull the broom handle in the correct direction. For left and right turns the bar moves more than the movement for up and down usually on a trike. I can't say for a gyro. On my gyro the control stick movements are very slight and I make an input and go back to center for turns.. Or said another way on my gyro ( a KB 2 ) I do not hold the control inputs in constantly for turns but then I don't make really steep banking turns either.
I really think your over complicating a simple problem, when flying with an over head control just imagine you are flying a weight shift control machine (a gyro is not) and use the (imaginary rigid) control bar to push your weight in the direction you wish to go.
Weight shift flying is very intuitive once used to it.

wolfy
 

Jean Claude

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Maybe this cheap training whith inversed stick is useful?
Much less expensive than a rotor!

Sans titre2.png
 

Jean Claude

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This is not a joke. I do not have much confidence in the direction of my reactions. The acquired reflexes can be unfortunate and break the machine.

I learned alone to pilot a "Pou du Ciel" without pedals. The stick controls the roll by the rudder. It took me a while before I stopped pushing in the footrests to correctt the rolling
 

Sanko26

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This is not a joke. I do not have much confidence in the direction of my reactions. The acquired reflexes can be unfortunate and break the machine.

I learned alone to pilot a "Pou du Ciel" without pedals. The stick controls the roll by the rudder. It took me a while before I stopped pushing in the footrests to correctt the rolling
Have you already took off with your tractor giro?
 

Jean Claude

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Not still. Almost all the details are finished. Now confined because Covid !
 
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