Barnett

[R-Sigma]

Are there any builders/flyers of the Barnett J4B2 out there ?

 

[L_Butler]

There are still a few of us around.

 

[j4flyer]

Tom Milton has a J4B-2 project for sale.

 

[R-Sigma]

There are still a few of us around.

If a set of plans could be acquired, would you recommend the J4B-2 as a build from scratch project?

 

[j4flyer]

If you can weld, the Barnett would be a great homebuilt project. The part you might not be able to secure would be the body. It’s a two part fiberglass structure. Other than that, different rotorheads and rotors have been used, as well as different engines. Jerrie had an o-200 on his. You really need an o-320 or a comparable auto conversion to make it into a real two place.
I would recommend not making the axle structure like Jerrie did. He had the axle running below with valve springs as dampers. The axle tube would become stretched and fail. You can use the A frame and run a sprung tube to the mast similar to the predator Vance flys. This eliminates the problem. The fuel tank material Jerrie used was 20 thou. Increase it to 25 or 32 and you won’t experience the welds cracking. There are a few additional areas that need beefed up. Bob Aspegren is a good resource on the Barnett.

 

[R-Sigma]

Thanks!
Welding, and precision machining, no problem. I also have lots of experience in fiberglass, I’m in the final stages of building a LongEZ. I will reach out to Bob Aspegren.

 

[R-Sigma]

Could you provide contact information for Bob Aspegren, or forward mine to him ?

 

[Mayfield]

Could you provide contact information for Bob Aspegren, or forward mine to him ?

I had this in my address book for Bob. I has been several years since I have heard of him. I think maybe Tommy Milton may have more current info.

[email protected]

 

[R-Sigma]

Thanks

 

[j4flyer]

I had this in my address book for Bob. I has been several years since I have heard of him. I think maybe Tommy Milton may have more current info.

[email protected]

Jim that’s still current.

 

[L_Butler]

I had a great time building mine. Took about 1000 hours, started from scratch, but I made some modifications.

A Subaru 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine works well for power as an alternate to a Lycoming, Continental or Rotax. I would suggest at least 135 hp if your want to go with a passenger. 165 is much, much better. I bought the body from Jerrie before he died. Finding a source for that may be a real problem. If you have fiberglass skills, you should be able to do it yourself. It is a fairly simple design. As mentioned above, two pieces, top and bottom halves.

Welding skills are a must. Some basic machining capabilities would be very helpful. The rotor head requires a milling machine and lathe or a cnc machine. Or you can buy a different style head and modify the mount and the control rods accordingly. I used Jerrie's design and am happy with it.

I'm on the forum more as the weather gets cold, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

 

[MikeBoyette]

L Butler
Pictures? Would love to see what sounds like a beautiful machine? Did you use Jerry’s original spindle head, or his version of an offset gimbal?

 

[okikuma]

There are still a few of us around.

Larry,

Is this the Barnett J4B2 you still currently fly? Please let us know the empty and gross weights, rotor diameter, takeoff, cruise, never exceed, and landing speeds.

Thank you,

Wayne

 

[okikuma]

I had a great time building mine. Took about 1000 hours, started from scratch, but I made some modifications.

A Subaru 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine works well for power as an alternate to a Lycoming, Continental or Rotax. I would suggest at least 135 hp if your want to go with a passenger. 165 is much, much better. I bought the body from Jerrie before he died. Finding a source for that may be a real problem. If you have fiberglass skills, you should be able to do it yourself. It is a fairly simple design. As mentioned above, two pieces, top and bottom halves.

Welding skills are a must. Some basic machining capabilities would be very helpful. The rotor head requires a milling machine and lathe or a cnc machine. Or you can buy a different style head and modify the mount and the control rods accordingly. I used Jerrie's design and am happy with it.

I'm on the forum more as the weather gets cold, I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

Here's some photos of a Canadian built J4B2 with a one-of-a-kind fiberglass cabin.

Wayne

 

[L_Butler]

Wayne,
Those pictures are it, although not much longer. I pranged it with the hangar door. I couldn't hit the stop button fast enough and really smashed it. Trying to do two things at once. It's the Penn Dutch expression "Too soon old, too late smart". Could I have repaired it? Sure, but a deal came along that was much easier. The pictures of the Canadian J4B2 will soon be mine. He sold it to me along with an enclosed trailer built specifically for the J4B2. So, I will be soon flying that gyro.

However for my old gryo:
Empty weight was 695 lbs.
Gross weight was 1320 (to meet elsa requirements if I decided to go that way)
Rotor was 29 ft dia (2-13' blades and 3' hub)
Takeoff speed varied, it just flew off the ground when it was ready. Usually about 45-50
Cruise at about 85-90
Vne was 140

There were different cruise speeds depending on canopy or not. With the canopy off, it cruised at 70-75. That was my favorite summertime mode if I wasn't going anywhere too far. In the summer with the canopy, it was much hotter and much less smelly. I really enjoyed flying around here in the summer with the smell of the farms and orchards so the canopy was usually off.

The rotor head was Jerrie's spindle head although it was slightly off center so it was more stable than a plain spindle head. but it did take a little stick force to move it. Kind of partway between an offset gimbal and a plain spindle. I don't know if his original design was a straight spindle, mine was not.

The 5 blade prop was not used for long. I tried it out for giggles, but it was noisier than a 3 blade prop so I switched it back to 3 blades. The 3 blade prop absorbs all the HP from my little Subaru.

 

[j4flyer]

Wayne,
Those pictures are it, although not much longer. I pranged it with the hangar door. I couldn't hit the stop button fast enough and really smashed it. Trying to do two things at once. It's the Penn Dutch expression "Too soon old, too late smart". Could I have repaired it? Sure, but a deal came along that was much easier. The pictures of the Canadian J4B2 will soon be mine. He sold it to me along with an enclosed trailer built specifically for the J4B2. So, I will be soon flying that gyro.

However for my old gryo:
Empty weight was 695 lbs.
Gross weight was 1320 (to meet elsa requirements if I decided to go that way)
Rotor was 29 ft dia (2-13' blades and 3' hub)
Takeoff speed varied, it just flew off the ground when it was ready. Usually about 45-50
Cruise at about 85-90
Vne was 140

There were different cruise speeds depending on canopy or not. With the canopy off, it cruised at 70-75. That was my favorite summertime mode if I wasn't going anywhere too far. In the summer with the canopy, it was much hotter and much less smelly. I really enjoyed flying around here in the summer with the smell of the farms and orchards so the canopy was usually off.

The rotor head was Jerrie's spindle head although it was slightly off center so it was more stable than a plain spindle head. but it did take a little stick force to move it. Kind of partway between an offset gimbal and a plain spindle. I don't know if his original design was a straight spindle, mine was not.

The 5 blade prop was not used for long. I tried it out for giggles, but it was noisier than a 3 blade prop so I switched it back to 3 blades. The 3 blade prop absorbs all the HP from my little Subaru.

Larry what diameter is the 5 blade ? I’m looking for a 58 for my Bandit. Bob Lewis

 

[okikuma]

Wayne,
Those pictures are it, although not much longer. I pranged it with the hangar door. I couldn't hit the stop button fast enough and really smashed it. Trying to do two things at once. It's the Penn Dutch expression "Too soon old, too late smart". Could I have repaired it? Sure, but a deal came along that was much easier. The pictures of the Canadian J4B2 will soon be mine. He sold it to me along with an enclosed trailer built specifically for the J4B2. So, I will be soon flying that gyro.

However for my old gryo:
Empty weight was 695 lbs.
Gross weight was 1320 (to meet elsa requirements if I decided to go that way)
Rotor was 29 ft dia (2-13' blades and 3' hub)
Takeoff speed varied, it just flew off the ground when it was ready. Usually about 45-50
Cruise at about 85-90
Vne was 140

There were different cruise speeds depending on canopy or not. With the canopy off, it cruised at 70-75. That was my favorite summertime mode if I wasn't going anywhere too far. In the summer with the canopy, it was much hotter and much less smelly. I really enjoyed flying around here in the summer with the smell of the farms and orchards so the canopy was usually off.

The rotor head was Jerrie's spindle head although it was slightly off center so it was more stable than a plain spindle head. but it did take a little stick force to move it. Kind of partway between an offset gimbal and a plain spindle. I don't know if his original design was a straight spindle, mine was not.

The 5 blade prop was not used for long. I tried it out for giggles, but it was noisier than a 3 blade prop so I switched it back to 3 blades. The 3 blade prop absorbs all the HP from my little Subaru.

Hello Larry,

Too bad you smashed your J4B2 into the hanger door. Was the airframe bent?

Thank you for the specs of your gyroplane. Your empty weight of 695 lbs is kind of heavy compared to Jerry Barnett's prototype J4B2 empty weight of 577 lbs. Then again, the weight of the Subaru EJ22 along with the redrive, cooling system, electrical system (including battery), and prerotator could weigh up to 120 lb more than the Continental O-200 engine without a generator and starter. Jerry's J4B2 was very simple for Day VFR flying only. He hand propped his Continental engine and hand started his rotor blades.



As far as I know, all of the Barnett Spindle Rotor Heads were offset about 3/8". Back in 2014, Chuck Beatty and I had a discussion about the Barnett Offset Spindle Rotor Head on the forum.

https://www.rotaryforum.com/threads/barnett-offset-spindle-rotor-head.41967/

Wayne

 

[okikuma]

Here's a video of a Barnett J4B2 C-FZAV flying off of a dry sod airstrip. The aircraft is registered to Paul Golphy in Davidson, Saskatchewan, Canada.

Wayne

 

[Jerry_Forest]

Here's an article about C-GHRF

 

[L_Butler]

Bob,
Sorry, I don't have the 5 blade prop anymore. It was 58" but I sold the extra blades to get me to 3. It was a laminated maple Precision Prop, so it would only fit on a Precision hub. Ground adjustable. I don't believe they are in business anymore. If you are interested in those, let me know.

Wayne,
It was a mess, the frame was bent and the door was bent also. I don't think they want to see me back again with a new gyro (or anything for that matter). It was also expensive, even with the insurance. Something about a "Stupid" clause.

Yes it was heavy, I used the 7.5 inch offset Barnett gearbox. I don't remember the weight, but it was probably not the best choice. I was impressed with his original "Shoebox" gearbox, but apparently he had problems with that unit and talked me into the big one. It was heavy and a HP hog. The oil level in it had several gears always submerged in oil and making a lot of heat. A belt drive would have been much lighter, and less HP loss. It did look cool though. Gold anodized aluminum case and cooling fins. I had all the equipment to fly at night as well, It was EAB not ELSA.

The O-200 was Jerrie's original engine for the J4B single seat craft. I talked with Herm Wimmer and Howard Merkel who both had a J4B2s and they both felt that the O-200 engine was too small for flying two up. They both had Continental engines, although I don't remember the size for sure. Howard's may have been an O-320. They were able to get good deals on used engines, I was unable to find one nearby at the time I was building.