Back Country Gyro Ops. Equipment, mods, techniques.

[Burrengyro]

John.
Very sorry to hear about your ELA, but glad you got out of it ok.
Understood about your home strip, probably a good decision.
The larger tyres would help alot in your winter conditions. The 26” would provide almost double the floatation over
soft ground than the 22”though. If weight became a problem in the summer you could go back to 22” for then.
I presume your M22 is a 914 & has Berringer brakes. Remembering also even with the 22” you really need to add a step of some sorts.
Of the Magni’s I have brought in recently 3 are M16 & 5 M22. When here all are fitted with 26” rears & the 17.5” suspension nose wheel assembly.
See pic of 3 M22’s about to be released into the wild.View attachment 1156996

Pete, Thanks for the reply. Love the M22 display. Thinking 1500 fpm climb could work with a short 250m runway. How much ground run are you using up before safely airborne with MTOW and the 915i Rotax?

 

[Jungleman]

Pete, Thanks for the reply. Love the M22 display. Thinking 1500 fpm climb could work with a short 250m runway. How much ground run are you using up before safely airborne with MTOW and the 915i Rotax?

John.
We use 550 kg here in NZ for MTOW.
I did extensive testing a while ago for the 915 Extreme with the 26” Kit installed at 550 kg & at max low & forward
C of G limits.
Measured distances with pegs and observers etc.
1,200’ amsl Grass strip with 4” grass. Very slight up hill slope, 3 knots 90 degree X wind, Temp 19’C. 1025 mb
The take offs showed consistently the following:
wheels off 90/105 meters.
50’ agl by 175 to 195 meters.
My strip here in the south is one way take off, sea level 200 meters long hard packed gravel with a 10’ drop at the end into a river. With my aux tank full I am routinely taking off on it at 540 kg with similar distances to those above. Mid summer as now during the day at 27 degrees a few meters longer & winter temps obviously shorter.

I have operated off this strip for 5 years now & in my opinion the 915 does not break free of the ground alot shorter than the 914 but it really excels in the climb out.

My suggestion would be to put a line across at 110 meters and if not wheels off and feeling good by then abort, no doubts / hesitations. I am not a good swimmer either so have added incentive.

Pete

 

[Burrengyro]

Pete,
This is great real-world information, thank you. Your data makes a 250m strip a theoretical possibility. I was under the false impression that your strip in the South was +300m long from the photos. You did a great job on the strip. I will be sticking with the 914 Magni M22 for a while. The "Abort Line" at 110m is a great safety feature. Just wondering what rpms do you pre-rotate to in order to make sure you are off the ground before 110m with MTOW? When do you go WOT in the takeoff? John H.

 

[Jungleman]

Pete,
This is great real-world information, thank you. Your data makes a 250m strip a theoretical possibility. I was under the false impression that your strip in the South was +300m long from the photos. You did a great job on the strip. I will be sticking with the 914 Magni M22 for a while. The "Abort Line" at 110m is a great safety feature. Just wondering what rpms do you pre-rotate to in order to make sure you are off the ground before 110m with MTOW? When do you go WOT in the takeoff? John H.

John.
That strip has always been 200 meters of gravel but had another 80 meters of soft brush covered ground at the end. The river has eaten that away. I may reclaim it in the future.
I usually pre rotate to 220. I find much higher than that does not shorten the take off roll significantly enough to warrant the extra wear on the pre rotator.
Especially when near MTOW I am usually at full throttle in 4 seconds. In softer ground / sand then a bit longer to avoid any chance of the down force burying the nose wheel. Had one of those and it can very quickly alter the structure
shape of the gyro. On longer strips then a more sedate throttle application. The 4 second one with the 915 does though take a well anticipated torque roll correction.
Just got in from an amazing evening flight in the mountains and thought worth mentioning a trick I use for measuring a
landing spot if in doubt rather than just ploughing on in.
They can be deceiving, eg flying up a river looking at bars and they are all too short then one comes along that looks better but in actual fact it only looks better because its longer than the others when in actual fact its still short. If that
makes sense.
So a controlled pass at 50 kts gps ground speed and count the seconds. 50 kts is 25 meters per second. So an 8 second pass is 200 meters. It is surprisingly accurate. I use OzRunways on my ipad & it has the function of a large ground speed display.
Pete

 

[Burrengyro]

Hi Pete, Many thanks for this great information. Torque roll with a crosswind from the left was a big lesson for me. That trick of using ground speed and counting the seconds during a pass is a great tip! You mentioned in an earlier post that you clocked 130 hours in 3 weeks. That's impressive. JH

 

[loftus]

Not to hijack Junngleman's thread but interestingly in this pdf of accident reports in South Africa from the ELA accident thread there is an incident with a Wagtail aviation gyro where the rotor flapped due to hitting a bump on takeoff. Just thought this is a good place to point out another potential pitfall of backcountry / rough field takeoffs in a gyro even in gyros designed for this like the Wagtail, rather than a new thread.

https://caasanwebsitestorage.blob.core.windows.net/occurencereports/November 2021.pdf

'04-11-2021
ZU-BZE
Wagtail Aviation
Sycamore MK1
Operation of Non-type Certified Aircraft
FS
0
The pilot reported that during the take-off roll on Runway 06, before the Gyrocopter reached full rotor revolutions per minute (RPM) there was an uneven terrain on the grass runway. After rolling over the bump, the gyrocopter bounced, resulting in the main rotor flapping and, subsequently, the main rotor struck the vertical fin before the pilot aborted take-off. The pilot was not injured, and the gyro sustained damage to the main rotor, the vertical fin and the rudder.'

 

[Burrengyro]

Loftus, A very valid point especially for soft grass runways. We always walk the runway to make sure it is in good condition, particularly after spells of rain. Luckily, we don't have mole problems or animals burrowing holes in the runway.

 

[Eric S]

Backcountry Video.
Loftus.
Here is a backcountry video I said I would put together. Its about 40 mins, so pour yourself a long one & sit back.
If your not a Fleetwood Mac fan then down the volume and play your own, or silent.
Pete.

Oh no. What happened to Jungleman's New Zealand flying video? It's gone. I searched for it to show someone b/c trying to describe it just doesn't do it justice.

Jungleman, if you see this, please post it again. It's one of the few videos I've seen that I didn't need to fast forward!

Thanks,
Eric

 

[Strike]

Giusto per curiosità oggi ho misurato i miei pneumatici 600x6, infatti hanno un diametro di 420 mm 16,5".
Vorrei avere le gomme Alaskan che ha Pete, ma sono comunque abbastanza efficaci quando corrono morbide.

luposo

SHi everyone, this is my very modified Gyro Ela 170hp MWFly engine 22" busch wheels and 8" front

 

[Jungleman]

Oh no. What happened to Jungleman's New Zealand flying video? It's gone. I searched for it to show someone b/c trying to describe it just doesn't do it justice.

Jungleman, if you see this, please post it again. It's one of the few videos I've seen that I didn't need to fast forward!

Thanks,
Eric

Hi Eric.
I got snapped for the music by Vimeo. Here is a link to the video with no music. Suggest you play your own choice in the background.
Cheers
Pete

 

[RogerB]

SHi everyone, this is my very modified Gyro Ela 170hp MWFly engine 22" busch wheels and 8" front

Looks nice, 170hp is a lot!
What is the maximum pre rotator rpm you get it to?
Any videos?

 

[RogerB]

Hi Eric.
I got snapped for the music by Vimeo. Here is a link to the video with no music. Suggest you play your own choice in the background.
Cheers
Pete

Hey Pete, how do you feel about the Magni's AN-3 bolt in their rotorhead?

It came loose in an accident recently, do you check yours regularly?
Do you feel it is cause for concern generally or perhaps it’s something you might now of that Magni is/will be addressing?

 

[Strike]

Sembra carino, 170 CV sono tanti!
Qual è il numero massimo di giri del prerotatore a cui lo ottieni?
Qualche video?

SHi, yes 170hp is a lot but this engine turns right so I DON'T have the problem of those who use the 915 or 916!! The head is completely new, designed by me, for this engine

 

[Strike]

Ehi Pete, cosa ne pensi del bullone AN-3 dei Magni nella loro testa del rotore?

Si è staccato di recente in un incidente, lo controlli regolarmente?
Ritieni che sia motivo di preoccupazione in generale o forse è qualcosa di cui potresti ora parlare e che Magni sta/ affronterà?

QWhat was the problem? Which bolt failed?

 

[Strike]

Sembra carino, 170 CV sono tanti!
Qual è il numero massimo di giri del prerotatore a cui lo ottieni?
Qualche video?

AMore photos if you are interested

 

[wolfy]

SHi everyone, this is my very modified Gyro Ela 170hp MWFly engine 22" busch wheels and 8" front

Love your gyro mate, and like the way you have used a third universal joint (and made a cardin joint) in you pre spinner so you could pre rotate with stick back. Well done, ELA and MTO should have done the same.
Chook you need to do this with you ELA.

wolfy

 

[Chook]

Love your gyro mate, and like the way you have used a third universal joint (and made a cardin joint) in you pre spinner so you could pre rotate with stick back. Well done, ELA and MTO should have done the same.
Chook you need to do this with you ELA.

wolfy

Yep, I'm watching carefully Wolfy.

Strike, have you replaced the 304 stainless with chromoly metal?

Regards to all............., Chook.

 

[Eric S]

Hi Eric.
I got snapped for the music by Vimeo. Here is a link to the video with no music. Suggest you play your own choice in the background.
Cheers
Pete

Thank you. Much appreciated.

 

[RogerB]

QWhat was the problem? Which bolt failed?

See this thread:

Post in thread 'FATAL - Magni M24 Plus 05-TD, Guillestre, near Mont-Dauphin - St-Crépin Airfield, Hautes, France 08 MAR 2022'
https://www.rotaryforum.com/threads...autes-france-08-mar-2022.1146759/post-1217901

 

[Strike]

Ciao, sì 170cv sono tanti ma questo motore gira a destra quindi NON ho il problema di chi usa il 915 o 916!! La testa è completamente nuova, disegnata da me, per questo motore

ILMy bendix system