Back Country Gyro Ops. Equipment, mods, techniques.

Jungleman

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Jul 1, 2016
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Jackson Bay. New Zealand
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S64 Crane, MD 500 , Magni M16 & SC M912
I think it is essentially your thread Pete so go for it, I am sure many would like to read it anyway.
I also fly both but am back to flying gyro's partly because of financial reasons and partly because gyro's are just so simple, forgiving, relaxing and enjoyable to fly.

wolfy
Wolfy.
To add to that they also “ooze with character & reek recreation “
Just look at the character filled little beast you have made from bits you had laying around and looks like to be flying great.

Copy that & will post this article I wrote a couple of years ago for our NZ AOPA.
Just a bit of how I got into helicopters and a few interesting points along the way then touches on gyros the last paragraph. I never did write the 3rd part as I am still actively flying it. Although covered some in Sanmans thread.
One point up until the event at the end of this article, is I had never seen a gyrocopter in flesh be it in the air or on the ground. They just did not register with me as something I would ever want to fly. I had my hands full keeping alive doing what I was let alone adding more risk.
I had spent a lot of time in the jungle and was a very latecomer to the internet & never paid attention to videos or pics of them as never envisaged flying one.
I will add a bit in a couple of days to more address Loftus question.
Sorry still not pdf load capable, also the quality of the pics not great, thats how they were in the mag. Pics of pics some.
PeteC161D544-2A30-4683-B223-350515122765.jpeg3F2491B3-4401-48C2-BF8A-338F619D721D.jpegF2CDB10C-D697-44A3-A102-3AA608B308A1.jpegDFE0D7EC-452D-4A84-BB68-226213B3D8BE.jpeg9BE56563-B4DF-48CA-BA94-FEFA1C519E7B.jpeg415D107B-3712-48B4-9764-6267A9882836.jpeg
 
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Burrengyro

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Ireland
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ELA07S and Montgomerie Bensen (project)
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Burrengyro - I would say it would be possible to land on either 100’ flat spot that you have in the diagram, and takeoff starting on the 4 degree decline into the wind assuming there isn’t an obstruction 1/2 down. Not sure what that is in the diagram. 4 degrees doesn’t seem like a lot. However, I never flew an ELA...

I wouldn’t want to start a take off on the 100’ flat part then at speed transition to 4 degree downhill slope unless it was gradual transition from flat to decline... What is the takeoff distance normally for ELA with the engine you have on flat paved runway? As Vance would say have to factor in the wind, weight, and density altitude and verify with information in the POH.
Hi DavePA11,
Everything depends on the wind direction, as you and Vance rightly identify. My main reason for seeking all the advice I can gather from you, Pete, Wolfy, Vance and the RFW is to verify if a gyro runway is safe and feasible on the land I have available. Land in Ireland is expensive. We also have only 2 airfields in our county, one grass and one hard surface, both a 40 minute drive away, apart from Shannon International Airport. The one with the hard runway has no hangar space available. The grass airfield is soft for about 4 months of the year. Hence my feasibility study into a new runway.

My thinking is keep a short flat area at the high end for turning and run-up. Grade the centre sloping portion to an even gradient and use the removed dirt to raise and extend the lower 100 ft section to be able to fly straight out over obstacles towards the flat sea level areas beyond just in case of the need for an emergency landing. There is a height difference of about 140 ft between the high end of the runway and the flat land beyond the end of the runway. Not being able to use the grass runway due to it's soggy condition in winter, even if the weather is good, is a pain. Having a new gravel runway, albeit sloping, would be a good option, wind direction, permitting. Flying gyros and doing this sort of work keeps me happy, and as my wife says, better be a happy madman than a sad one. John H.
 

Resasi

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London/ Kilifi Kenya
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Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
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100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
Spheres and wheelbarrows spring to mind seeing that.
 

Burrengyro

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Ireland
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ELA07S and Montgomerie Bensen (project)
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Here is a nice down hill take off :oops:


I am sure yours would be less dodgy.

wolfy
Hi Wolfy,
There did not seem to be any wind either from the look of the bushes and trees on the UAE takeoff! I see he dipped his main wheels in the water too. :)
John H
 

DavePA11

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USA
That was impressive Wolfy. So there wasn't any issue with the steep transition from flat to down grade either. He sure seemed close to wheels in water. That usually ends in a flip in the water. Watching in full screen I bet he scrapped the bottom of his right horizontal stabilizer as it appears the tail hit the ramp and the nose bumped forward. What gyro model is he flying?

Wolfy - what gyro do you fly? Can you post more of those videos to give people take-off challenges? :)

Burrengryo - 100' should be fine for landing. Takeoff depends on many other factors, but if you duplicate the Wolfy video with that gyro your all set. :)
 
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Burrengyro

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Joined
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Messages
80
Location
Ireland
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ELA07S and Montgomerie Bensen (project)
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That was impressive Wolfy. So there wasn't any issue with the steep transition from flat to down grade either. He sure seemed close to wheels in water. That usually ends in a flip in the water. Watching in full screen I bet he scrapped the bottom of his right horizontal stabilizer as it appears the tail hit the ramp and the nose bumped forward. What gyro model is he flying?

Wolfy - what gyro do you fly? Can you post more of those videos to give people take-off challenges? :)

Burrengryo - 100' should be fine for landing. Takeoff depends on many other factors, but if you duplicate the Wolfy video with that gyro your all set. :)
Hi DavePA11,
Short landings are no problem, especially into wind. Short takeoffs like Wolfy's would need some practice! The UAE pilot was flying an MTO3 or MTO Sport. No tail wheel, looked like he scraping the empennage keel going down the slope? Nose too high? He only seemed to pull the stick back half way through the ground roll.
John H
 

wolfy

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western australia
That was impressive Wolfy. So there wasn't any issue with the steep transition from flat to down grade either. He sure seemed close to wheels in water. That usually ends in a flip in the water. Watching in full screen I bet he scrapped the bottom of his right horizontal stabilizer as it appears the tail hit the ramp and the nose bumped forward. What gyro model is he flying?

Wolfy - what gyro do you fly? Can you post more of those videos to give people take-off challenges? :)

Burrengryo - 100' should be fine for landing. Takeoff depends on many other factors, but if you duplicate the Wolfy video with that gyro your all set. :)
That wasn't me in the UAE video mate.
I fly a homebuilt that was a 582, tall tail and vertical rectangle mast machine.
It has been completely changed around into a 120hp rotax, tri tail, 4130 round angled mast and big wheel machine.
It has only just started flying and still playing around with it so nothing to spectacular to show yet.

wolfy
 

Jungleman

Junior Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
69
Location
Jackson Bay. New Zealand
Aircraft
S64 Crane, MD 500 , Magni M16 & SC M912
Martin your welcome glad you enjoyed.

Loftus, probably no book but how about a few videos of future gyro activities.

Wolfy. Yeah thats an interesting take off. Makes you wonder if it was a one off or he goes out of there regularly.
As John said does not look like a lot of aft stick in until the top of the decline.certainly a laundry moment for him I am picking.
 

Jungleman

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Messages
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Location
Jackson Bay. New Zealand
Aircraft
S64 Crane, MD 500 , Magni M16 & SC M912
Hi Pete, Runway orientation marked in reverse by mistake. Corrected in image below. John.View attachment 1151931
John H.
Sorry for the delay, I was looking for a down hill vid I have but no find, so will make another some time.
Just adding to what Dave said.
Your proposed runway has some similarities to mine in the North Island.
See pic. It is flat for 60 meters then a good gradual transition to the 10 degree slope for 30 m then gradual out & 3 to 4 degrees to the end total 260 meters. So a little longer. It has 50’ trees at both ends ( so that shortens the useful length ) and along the prevailing wind side. So do get a bit of disturbed air at times.
It is 1600’ amsl. So yours looks like a lot better strip to me.
As Dave said if you can avoid a sharp transition from flat to slope in the construction.
Mine at 10 degrees with a rounded transition is not a problem. With full fuel I am usually off just as starting on the slope. But for practice I will vary my starting point to where am lifting off on the slope and when back down on the lower level. Its not a problem. The gradual transition means a slow sight picture change. Even if you need to give up a few meters of your top flat in construction to accomplish that would be worth it. But 4 degrees not much slope.
The Magni POH says at max weight I need 256 meters to clear 50’. So I have around that but it does not take into account all of the affecting variables, which I have a few of. So I do not take passengers. Remembering I have 20 kg of wheel mods. So the max weight can sneak up on me easily.
Being that you are going to rock the strip are you still planning on fitting larger tyres.
You mentioned tail wheels. Another project on my list is to lengthen the one on my Magni to give more protection on rocky / uneven ground mainly to protect the stabiliser. So looking at making a triangular retractable.

1/The block rises up to the house is about 200’.
2/Under construction. The flat continues on past the rise for 60 meters.
3/Lifting off on the rounded area. Difficult to show slope on pics sometimes. But you can see on the fence in the background.10D956C3-4CED-409F-BB5E-7A7DBC637263.jpeg So yours will be half that slope so should be a good strip.
4/ The strip in the south you were asking the distances of in regards to the videos.
Pete.
73C4140B-1E8C-4180-B311-19CB50DA1CD4.jpeg3C3297F3-2B2F-4D12-A01D-622945BA9B5A.jpeg04EC9DB0-3172-417F-8506-EC3FB9FB4935.jpeg
 
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Jungleman

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Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Messages
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Location
Jackson Bay. New Zealand
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S64 Crane, MD 500 , Magni M16 & SC M912
How do your tail numbers work there with just 3 letters?
Loftus.
New Zealand is ZK, so it is actually ZK RPA. We however are permitted to leave off the ZK.
Initially all off our helicopters have been H _ _. We now have more than 900 so they ran out of combinations so now can be I _ _
Most of the gyro’s R _ _
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Oct 30, 2003
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Nipomo,California
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Givens Predator
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The Magni POH says at max weight I need 256 meters to clear 50’. So I have around that but it does not take into account all of the affecting variables, which I have a few of. So I do not take passengers. Remembering I have 20 kg of wheel mods. So the max weight can sneak up on me easily.
Being that you are going to rock the strip are you still planning on fitting larger tyres.
I feel an important thing to consider when taking off into the wind with 50 foot trees at the end of the runway is the affect the trees will have on the wind.

Different trees will affect the air differently.

In my experience there is generally descending air as I approach the lee side of a ground obstruction.

This descending air may prevent a gyroplane from performing to the numbers in the POH.
 

Jungleman

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Joined
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Messages
69
Location
Jackson Bay. New Zealand
Aircraft
S64 Crane, MD 500 , Magni M16 & SC M912
I feel an important thing to consider when taking off into the wind with 50 foot trees at the end of the runway is the affect the trees will have on the wind.

Different trees will affect the air differently.

In my experience there is generally descending air as I approach the lee side of a ground obstruction.

This descending air may prevent a gyroplane from performing to the numbers in the POH.
Vance.
Absolutely. This strip of mine can be quite challenging at times because of that, especially if dealing not only with disturbed wind but gusty also. Not only trees at each end but also flanking the windward. I did contemplate constructing it from the house down hill and into wind. But quite steep and large amount of earthworks in pumice ground. Very difficult to regrass.
Also wind shadow from topography or structures needs to be taken into account.
Pete
 

Jungleman

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Joined
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Messages
69
Location
Jackson Bay. New Zealand
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S64 Crane, MD 500 , Magni M16 & SC M912
Vance.
Curious, what approx max rate of climb can you get with your Predator say at sea level and 2 up and say 1 hrs gas.
Pete
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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Nipomo,California
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Givens Predator
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Vance.
Curious, what approx max rate of climb can you get with your Predator say at sea level and 2 up and say 1 hrs gas.
Pete
Writing in the most general terms Pete; at 50kts I generally see around 700 feet per minute two up at sea level. Solo I generally see around 1,100 feet per minute at 50kts.
 

Burrengyro

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Dec 15, 2020
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Ireland
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ELA07S and Montgomerie Bensen (project)
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Hi Pete,
I'm with Martin W regarding your very engaging writing style!
Many thanks for the photos, advice and descriptions of your runway setup.
You are giving me some real pragmatic information.
The katabatic winds and changes of wind direction from morning to evening is interesting. There are some similarities to my site.

Runway option 1: the one outlined in yellow in the earlier posted satellite photos.
The winter photo is the sight picture looking from where the gyro would start rolling on 21 direction.
The hill falls off steeply over the hedge line.
This slope would be graded to give a 4 or 5 degree slope overall with about 240m of runway.
The land at the exit end of runway 21 slopes sea level and relatively safe for an emergency landing in the event of an engine failure on take off.
This option is close to neighbours.

Runway option 2 is at the bottom of the hill at sea level running parallel to a water drain and is about 240m long. This runway has some issues with trees at exit and entry points. The second photo is looking north from the runway mid point. The third photo is looking south from the same mid point.
When the wind comes from the west, it comes over the trees where the jeep and digger are parked and can cause turbulence and a roll effect which would not be good when landing.
Getting the acquiescence of neighbours and the local council might be the biggest problem.
John
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