Aviomania Genesis G1sE Sport

[j bird]

John, I wish I could say yes, but I haven't completed my training, haven't been in the air since you and I were in Spanish Fork. Seems like the last few years have come and gone in a flash, have had to deal with a lot of family chaos and life itself. But I'm going to persevere, and John, I hope you do to!

 

[Rasool]

Nikolas,

I am also interested in purchasing a kit for a Genesis G1sB. Do the kit prices you are currently quoting include freight? If not, how much should I expect to add for slow freight (shipboard) to the East coast, USA? Also, what performance numbers do you get with a Rotax 912UL, the 80 horse version? Cruise, etc. I weigh about 190 lbs.

Thanks,

Russ

 

[All_In]

Hi J
Buddy that sucks too. Life does seem to get in the way. Keep on keep'n on... Like me never give up and never surrender.
Hope to be flying with you at EL Mirage.

 

[All_In]

Nikolas,

I am also interested in purchasing a kit for a Genesis G1sB. Do the kit prices you are currently quoting include freight? If not, how much should I expect to add for slow freight (shipboard) to the East coast, USA? Also, what performance numbers do you get with a Rotax 912UL, the 80 horse version? Cruise, etc. I weigh about 190 lbs.

Thanks,

Russ

Hi Russ
I'm the US agent for Nicolas so I can anwser most of your questions.
No the prices are FOB cypress so freight is not included. Nicolas has found an inexpensive way to ship kits by air. He shipped them on passenger airlines on stand-by it can take up to a couple of weeks for an airliner to have the space and useful load to ship it.
The air costs from 1,200 to 1,500 dollars depending on the cost of aircraft fuel at the time of shipment.
Shipping we have quoted about $600 to ship it by sea but it can take up to two months to get to you. This is an estimate as we have never shipped one by sea yet.
There is also a US customs fees when you pick if up and can rage from $350 to $450.

Nicolas's gyros are much lighter than anything else I've seen in the same class so 80 HP will be a great performer and 100HP is overkill you would not use full throttle very much is what I've been told.

If you would like to talk about flying anything just email or give me a call.
Email address is my Name. John Rountree with no spaces and @msn.com at the end.
My phone is 619 743 67 one two.

 

[Rasool]

Thanks John, I will call you.

Russ

 

[Resasi]

With the possibility that the enclose-able Sport model may not be the single seater offered for Section T certification in the UK, the attraction of the Genesis for me does take a dip.

The fact that it was so stable, yet manoeuvrable, and could be enclosed for the colder weather and longer cross country flights, was for me a very large part of wanting this particular single seat type.

The ‘couple of weeks’ aspect is beginning to turn into years which is unfortunate.

 

[Aviomania]

Leigh, yes the first one to go through is the Open Genesis CE.... followed by the Sport.......

Have in Mind that... the SPORT is an UPGRADE to the CE...... so a Genesis CE (open) can be converted to SPORT ( enclosed) easily!!!!

And why the CE first??? Because this is what MOST people want and can afford........ Once the CE is accepted then the sport will be easier to be accepted as 95% is the same gyroplane....

And do not forget ... it is the UK... not many choices there!!!!

 

[Aviomania]

Also.. to answer your Question on another threat... yes we have 3 blade options for our gyroplanes.... 2 more will be available at a later date!!

 

[Resasi]

Problem is the time being taken to do even to certify the CE. It may well be easily upgraded but why if they are so similar is the sport not being the one to go through as that is the one that is type that is most wanted here with the colder weather.

We have Merlins, Crickets, Bensens, Layzelles but they are all open. Not one enclosed single. I know at least two enclose-able sports would sell immediately,

The change from Dragon wings to a new rotor will unfortunately mean yet more delay. I know of no 3 gyroplane blade rotor that is approved here.

I was talking to Steve Slater CEO of the LAA nearly two years ago about the Genesis and he was being enthusiastic, welcoming the idea, but nothing seems to have happened between then and now.

 

[Aviomania]

i did not say 3 blade... i said 3 options of rotors.

Also most single seat customers cannot afford the sport as it is 5 grand more. Also.... the CE has most process and tests done so it will be faster to take it through. Once this is done then the sport will be easy also. if we start with the sport it will take much longer. So.... it is wiser having one model available ASAP and then follow with another.

Taking any single seat through the UK requires investment... considerable investment!!!! of time and money... we are the only ones making this step.

your only options for now are Merlins, Crickets, Bensens, Layzelles..... once we finish what we started you will have more options.
Unfortunately we can choose from what is available... not what we want....

Fly anywhere else than UK... .and you can have almost what you want!!!!

 

[Resasi]

My apologies Nikolas, three options of rotor sounds good. Problem will be which will LAA accept. They are certainly familiar with Dragon Wings.

Again, quite correct, section T is an expensive process, however others have gone through the process and managed quite healthy sales. The only ones? Not so sure but possibly with single seat.

I have tried all the single seat options available in UK, and the Bensen is my personal favourite due to it’s agility, however this is due to its instability...the Genesis is the only one, which is still only a possibility, that I would be interested in, because it is both agile...and stable. And then, as mentioned, with the enclose-able canopy due to the weather ie lower temps in the UK. The size and proportions were good and the tail section, a great bit of design

Most if not all single seaters are most often just for local fun flying, the enclosed Genesis offers the possibility of touring on longer cross-countries in comfort. Even in sunny Florida taking the Hornet on longer flights, (within the 10 mile radius), and I had ten gallons, lost it’s allure after a bit.

What might the enclosed Sport’s still air range be with a 912 IS?

Yes flying elsewhere is possible, but having to go abroad when you suddenly wish to fly not really a practical solution.

The waiting period for one to be available here seems to simply be extending on, however we do realise how much else you are doing, including keeping the various potential customers informed

You say the CE is upgradable to the Sport, '5 grand more', what would these be for, and what are the principle structural differences?

Appreciate you taking the time taken to respond on the Forum.

 

[Resasi]

Perhaps this would be easier.

You say the CE is upgradable to the Sport, '5 grand more', what would these be for, and what are the principle structural differences?

 

[wnwgj]

I think most of the cost is in the different pod. Otherwise it's just a variation of the triangulating pieces holding the mast to permit the pilot to sit between them rather than on top of them. Otherwise the frames are the same I think.

 

[Resasi]

Thanks very much for that elucidation Will.

I have an imperfect knowledge of section T and its test requirements, but would venture that structural changes in a model would possibly require complete re-testing...and a similar delay for an enclosed canopy version to be approved?

 

[wnwgj]

I think it very likely that a complete re-test would be required as the LAA would likely take the view that the additional structural members would have a significant effect.- though by then the process would be known and therefore faster. Closed cockpits require more close review of things like wiring though Nicolas has assured me that the electrical wiring is in any case to an aviation standard. But nevertheless that would be tested too.

 

[Resasi]

Coming up for a year later. Any movement Will?

I do know that Mike in Ireland is moving forward with his ‘new’ single seat for the UK and Ireland.

I do think there has, slowly, begun a resurgent interest is single seat gyros, if only due to the costs associated with the factory two seaters.

A new rotor and new prop both promise increases in efficiency and performance over the previous, less than impressive figures for the original version of this gyro.

 

[wnwgj]

Ha! Yes and no! I speak to Nicolas regularly. Several intertwined problems. Fundamentally, there is no point taking it through the approval process until the design is properly stable as it becomes so difficult to change it after that. The demise of Dragonwings created a problem and also some design changes. However, I m optimistic that we will get progress soon now. At any rate, I hope I won't be saying the same thing again in a year's time!!

 

[Resasi]

It would seem that the original ‘'Two weeks'’ experienced by Stan when building John’s (All-In) machine has now morphed into 'Two years’' ...and waiting.

When does any design become ‘stable’? The Dragon Wing problem is a set back, but not insurmountable, as the LAA/Francis Donaldson is reported to have been considering approval for the new Gyro Tech blades.

Sadly don’t see any Genesis in the UK in the foreseeable future though I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

 

[j bird]

Yeah, where's John? a lot of people were expecting things to happen in the U.S. with the Genesis, kind-a- petered out, too bad!!!!!!

 

[Aviomania]

Leigh.. Gyrotech rotors were extensively tested....... no good at all for OUR single seat!!!!!!!
We have a great design and i do not want to compromise it just to make sales.... i want to sell products that i believe in.... not something that has been compromised!!!!
We have one in Cyprus flying with Gyrotech... we made a lot of modifications to it... but still is only 80% as good as the original design.. so i do not want to sell a single seat with other blades.... therefore it will take some time to finalize the new option (which I do not want to go in detail).

So the only single seat sales are done with the agreement that the rotor blades will be replaced to the new option as soon as it will be available. As you know this cannot be done in UK since it will require a new certification for the new option. That is why we will wait till the final new option will be available.

The 2 seat is fine with Gyrotech rotors.. Although i still prefer the dragon wings on it... but the difference is not that great... just 5 Mph slower, 30 meters longer take of run, 80 fpm less climb and not for aggressive yanking and banking....

Aviomania is now restructuring everything ...... more details will follow!!!

attached pictures of Gyrotech rotors testing.