Autogyro idea

WHY

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Now come on guys, we don't know how much good experienced help he may have available to him . True, this is a major undertaking but not a reason to dump it "if he has this type of help available". Otherwise it will be a very expensive and with a lot of bumps on the head, (been there, done that, bought the cap and the T'shirt and neither fit, but not sorry).

Tony
 

GyroDoug

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Now come on guys, we don't know how much good experienced help he may have available to him . True, this is a major undertaking but not a reason to dump it "if he has this type of help available". Otherwise it will be a very expensive and with a lot of bumps on the head, (been there, done that, bought the cap and the T'shirt and neither fit, but not sorry).

Tony
Tony,

I was not trying to get Barron to dump this project. In fact I tried very hard to make it clear that I hoped he was successful and wished him every good fortune in his endeavor. However, it seemed clear to me (and I will admit I may be wrong as it has happened before :)) by the things being said, that he does not have a clear understanding of the issues involved. So I simply tried to warn him to go slow and gain a better understanding before he starts acting like an experienced designer and making decisions that could cost him more than he knows. My words were meant 100% to help him realize that he needs more knowledge before he is ready to tackle this large project. I am trying to be a voice of warning to help him make some wise choices.

Vance is a good example of someone else that is attempting to go down the same road. However there are some differences in the two approaches. Vance first bought a Gyro and mastered flying it. He learned a lot about how Gyros fly and what he likes and doesn't like about the one he currently has. Vance is also cross trained in other aircraft and has a long history of custom building morotrized machines. Vance is always the first to admit that he has never designed a Gyroplane before and he is getting help and guidance from others with lots more experience than he has. And Vance has a much broader and deeper understanding of the issues involved in designing his own Gyro. Vance has been at it for quite a while now and still has a long ways to go. He is moving slowly and methodically and doing his absolute best to minimize his risks in his endeavor. I hope Barron has the wisdom to take a similar approach.
 

Barron 64

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I appreciate everyone's input. But let me start off by saying Barron is no dummy. I have been involved in rebuilding motorcycles, cars, ships, and aircraft. Just not gyroplanes. However I have logged time on a few. I understand that things take time and I certainly am not interested in becoming a lawn dart. With that said I do have people around me that can help and I have made contact with 2 engineers that are going to go over the idea with me. With that said, I am interested in the opinion of you all. Just don't think that I am some noob with a death wish. I came here to get ideas and thoughts about the project I wish to have a go at and ALL of you have provided this. ( Thank You ). It is IMPOSSIBLE for someone to offend me so please don't feel you have to walk on egg shells, speak your mind.

Hooah ?
 
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Earthboundmisft

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Build, or BUY a lightweight, conventional SINGLE place, and fly it for a year.
Then bust out with your revolutionary mackdaddy one of a kind.
Guarantee you will have a WHOLE different outlook...
 

Barron 64

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I am having an engineer meet me at my office in Miami on Monday to discuss my idea. Based on preliminary conversation he though that is was something that could be worked out. I guess more on that later.
 

GyroDoug

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Barron,

I do not think you are a dummy. Nor do I discount your life experiences that have brought you to the point where you want to take on this project. I simply perceive that when it comes to understanding the issues that a Gyroplane Designer has to make decisions about, you have limited knowledge and understanding. That's not a bad thing and it says nothing derogitory about you. It is simply a statement about where you are at, right now. As long as you have the wisdom to recognize there are things you need more understanding of before you can make wise choices and yo utake the time to learn or you surrouond yourself with others who already have that knowledge and understanding and you listen to them, you will be fine. Just understand there is no substitute for practical experience in Gyroplane design. Even a top NASA scientist who helped design the space shuttle will need knowledge and understanding (that they don't have) when they first start to design a Gyroplane.

Because the Gyro world is so small and there has never been enough perceived potential commercial application to attract the big money development companies, there isn't much publisized work out there for engineers to read and learn from. Most of our current understanding has come from small companies working out of their homes at first and then a small shop. The Universities aren't teaching Gyroplane design because they don't know it. Even the most respected and knowledgeable experts we have in the field today, don't always agree on what is most important and what makes a Gyroplane stable and safe. It is just not something that you want to rush into and start applyiing your own personal theory to. For years we have had people doing that in our sport and that has caused a lot of needless deaths and given Gyroplanes a reputation for being dangerous aircraft.

If you will take your time and learn all you can from those that have already made mistakes, you will be able to increase the odds of your successfully surviving this adventure. I am not trying to scare you out of your project, I am simply urging caution and encouraging you to get the right help to make sure you are successful. While there are lots of people on this forum that are more than willing to share their opinions, your job is to figure out which posters really know what they are talking about and which are simply sharing an opinion. I tend to look at what people have accomplished in the past and weigh their opinions accordingly. You really are embarking on an exciting adventure and I wish you nothing but the best.
 

Barron 64

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Thanks Gyrodoug. Let me admit NO I AM NOT A GYROCOPTER DESIGNER. There I said it, hope everyone feels better now. I knew you didn't think I was a dummy, I was just using this as a simple expression, for everyone to understand. We all have limited knowledge and understanding, so I am in good company. The thing to realize is that with respects to this project I am FULL of ideas and as I discuss them, I don't make decisions on what I am "going" to do based on these discussions because while people here offer support and answer questions I have or make comments about my ideas I take them all with a grain of salt. Regarding this idea, I have not applied any "personal" theories to it. In my minds eye I see a clear picture of what I want and now I will speak with as many Gyro-knowledgeable people as I can to discuss things in general. From my school of thought, if I get a red flag on this, you better believe the project is over and I will find another gyro project. Also understand I am not even thinking of building this to "change" the industry , as my idea is NOT that big of a deal to the gyro segment. This would simply be MY personal vision. After all building a gyrocopter from an aircraft fuselage has been done already so my idea is nothing new. Also regarding your comment about me being in over my head, I would have to disagree. If I were building this without consulting engineers or asking questions and getting answers, then I would fully agree with that comment. But since I am hiring engineers to discuss the project and having you guys as my "arm chair consultants", I think that I am approaching this correctly. When I posted my idea I fully expected to receive discussions from both ends of the spectrum and I have not been disappointed. In closing again I say thank you to you and everyone that have posted their comments and thoughts or concerns about safety, because that is really what your post and others like it are trying to convey.

Respectfully,
 
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StanFoster

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Barron- I will be watching your project with a lot of interest. I love build threads, especially the ones that kind of evolve on their own like Vances Maria Gale project.

Many times you learn by doing...and I commend you for having the confidence to take on this project, and you seem wide open for suggestions. Too many people go through their whole lives afraid to try something they havent done before.

I never will forget letting my co-workers know that I wanted to build a curved stairway someday, and finally I landed a job that would involve building it after hours. Everyone of my co-workers commented words to the effect...."but you never have built one before". Thats where just like in your case and my building my first stairway, we both have to draw on what skills we have, and take it as a learning experience. I learned a lot, the stairs turned out nice......and likewise I have total confidence your project will evolve into something nice as well. I wish you the best ......you already have half the battle won....the confidence battle.


Stan
 

Barron 64

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Thanks Stan and congrats on the staircase ! The Maria Gale and the Behemot projects are very cool and I wish those guys the best of luck with them.
 

WHY

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Hi Barron

My comments about mast and pylon installations being rigid are kind of pointed out in the "Xenon thread"

Tony
 

Heron

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Even if you have a slider head, still you need some mast dampening system.
Mounting pilon for a shorter mast will need that pivot point with a donut.
You are going in the right direction.
Heron
 

Barron 64

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Even if you have a slider head, still you need some mast dampening system.
Mounting pilon for a shorter mast will need that pivot point with a donut.
You are going in the right direction.
Heron
Thanks, lots of information here !
 
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