ASRA new safety directive for TAG gyroplane.

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GyrOZprey

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It is common for older technology rotor blades with wood components to take a "set" if left drooping unsupported for too long, and fly accordingly for a while. For those blades, the best way to cope with that annoyance is to put a stand under each tip to support the weight while sitting in the hangar and going through temp and humidity changes. Being supported at both the hub and the tip makes a big difference. I wonder if that might positively affect the behavior you see.
YES WaspAir ...ALL the rotors atop gyros in my hangar are supported on nice tip-stands ...when I plan to not fly the next day! A week or a month parked ...they all get supported! (Even my Dragon wings on the Butterfly!)
I believe the majority of TAG owner's have found this a beneficial practice! Certainly most of the ones in USA do this!
 

500e

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Regarding the vibes i saw on that video I cannot believe it will smooth out with time on a hub bar( if the head had elastomeric damping maybe but would suggest they were shot). As said if the vibe was that bad I would not fly it.
Have not noticed helicopter blades that were that critical, we have private machines standing for weeks without problems as long as B&T were ok to start with, I have no knowledge of composite blades, I would have thought centripetal force should remove the droop, also do they absorb moisture if so what happens in freezing conditions? will talk to a couple of people who work on helicopters with comp blades & get their input
 

Kolibri

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I don't know how you think ANY rotorcraft mast system can be designed to withstand the MASSIVE out-of-balance forces PROVEN over & over to trash the craft in seconds ...when weight is unevenly added( Ice) or subtracted( loss of a balance component - or piece of rotor)!
Because I know of at least one company who produces such a massively strong gyro mast/rotor,
which doesn't break even from flight RRPM impacts -- much less in the from turbulence, etc.

These same rotor blades also have their balance components properly anchored, with both aerospace epoxy and mechanical fasteners. None have ever shot out of the blade ends, not even from impacts.

They also don't need to be propped up in the hangar (as RAF urged of theirs).



With the computer-modeling available these days ... it would be interesting to run some simulations!
You mean after the gyros have been sold and are being flown?
Wouldn't it be prudent to run those in-flight simulations during the design phase?

I'd like to see gyros sold from superior engineering vs. glossy marketing.
Notice how nobody here has stood up to defend the lateral pair of mast plate bolt holes.


The culpable party in the rotor fiasco ...is the separate entity that produces ONLY the ROTOR ....AND ...ignored a specific direction from the TAG manufacturer ...when requesting a change of weighting material being laid up in the leading edge!
Sorry, but this still smacks of "passing the buck".
People bought Titanium Explorers from Neil's company, not from his rotor supplier.
The consistent gist of your TAG defense has been to misdirect from Neil to others (including a deceased pilot).
Neil is very new in the gyro industry, and I think that's now becoming obvious.



The TAG carbon-on carbon spar rotor is unique new design & use of the aerospace materials ... there IS a learning curve of their characteristics
Then let Neil learn such himself, first, through ample testing.
The same goes for Otmar of AutoGyro, etc.
I'm tired of reading about gyro owners being unknowing test pilots for questionable components.
 
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GyrOZprey

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SIGH ... you just like to argue & ARGUE & ARGUE & anything ANYONE has to say is just more fuel for continuance ......

I enjoyed the memorial weekend PEACE & quiet from your self-indulgent "crusader-vindictive"postings ...... summer's here time to get busy with FLYING & enjoying our wonderful flying machines & posting INSPIRING & POSITIVE posts!!!

I challenge YOU ...to be inspiring NOT denigrating & try to tone down the self-righteous crusader ...persnikety wanna-be lawyer winning EVERY POINT /having the last word on every thread! You are close to being the most despised, annoying persona to rattle your drum here ...in the 9 years I have been reading this forum!

When ASRA reports come out .... valid INFORMED discussion can continue!
 

Kolibri

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Sure, Chris, let's all just accept your spin on the matter.
You have no vested commercial interest with TAG, hold all the technical facts, and are completely objective.
Why should anybody else comment at all?
 
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GyrOZprey

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:rolleyes: o_O

When ASRA reports come out .... valid INFORMED discussion can continue!
 

Hosko

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I cannot believe that meany \ any mast can cope with blade loss at flight RPM

Just noticed your post My answer is YES & if it was doing it before take off I am lost for words
500e .....that amount of stick shake was deemed acceptable by the manufacturer .
I am not new to the sport of gyro flying. I had my first Benson style gyro , that I taught myself to fly , 30 years ago. I have designed , built & test flown 13 gyroplanes. In that time I've never had a gyro that had near the blade vibration of this particular TE.
After a lot of frustration , the problem was found & rectified .
Unlike Christine , I post the facts not hot air opinions & accusations. The vid of the stick vibration is a fact , the rusty/failed wheel bearings after 10hrs is fact ....confirmed by bearing specialist , the badly cracked tail at mount point is fact (tail replaced without question by TAG) , the paint lifting off is fact .....poor undercover prep confirmed by a pro auto finisher ( btw .....I have painted 13 gyros & not one paint failure).
Just after the WA crash the first unfounded accusations aimed at the pilot by Mrs. Toevs was posted ..... rough weather , a scared PIC & poor decision making ......scroll back through the posts , you will find it .
The next was that it was OK to continue flying your folding mast TE after fitting new plates ....don't bother waiting for ASRA to lift SD.
Now , just recently , that overloading the gyro in previous flights contributed to the crash. This claim was going to be your trump card that you were waiting to release at the appropriate time.....but you were just busting to tell everyone.
Back peddle & deflect your claims all you like , Christine ......it is all written there . A number of times you grandstand & tell people to stop making judgements & accusations & let ASRA do their investigations .....where , in fact , you are the main culprit.
The Titanium Explorer is a great machine & flys extremely well . What has happened since October is tragic . Kym (Richard) was a mate of mine , I took him for a flight 20 years ago .....he loved it. I reckon he would be disgusted with some commentators & , in particular , the crash investigation....😔.
 

500e

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An interesting post @Hosko
What was the reason for the vibe?
I presume with your knowledge you did not fly it with that amount of shake.
I have no axe to grind as my interest is purely as a bystander, I don't know any autogyro pilots & don't have any connection to any Co who manufactures or sell them.
IThe technology is interesting & there are a lot of highly qualified people here who impart their knowledge freely for which I thank them.
 

Kolibri

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I guess I just don't understand Chris's bizarrely triumphant attitude of (to paraphrase):

"See, it was not our allegedly weak mast plates which affected less than a dozen machines,
but our defective rotor blades which grounded over half the fleet! Hah!
"

I also don't understand her insistence that "valid informed discussion" may not continue until the final report of ASRA,
yet she meanwhile freely casted about vague (and so far unsubstantiated) theories of "
human factors" relating to a deceased pilot owner.

I hope that ASRA and TAG discover any and every safety element of the TE gyro.

_______
500e, thanks for your "no dog in this hunt" comments.
 
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All_In

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Thank you so much for valuable information!
 
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