Army grounds aircraft for a safety review following recent deadly crashes

[Sv.grainne]

Growing up in Los Angeles, we had seven VHF stations: 2. 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and six UHF stations: 18, 22, 28, 34, 52, 58. There was much TV to watch until the evening sign off. At lease one station would show the following film before the National Anthem.

Wayne

No uhf in my early days in the boon docks! I can't remember living anywhere except Barstow, CA where there was a uhf channel, and that was much later, maybe 65!

 

[okikuma]

We had rabbit ears on top of the TV. It had to be adjusted differently for each of the three channels. I think they were all VHF.

We always had a dedicated TV antenna on the roof. In the late 1970s through the early 1980s when there was over the air pay TV, I built several pirate boxes for my Dad to watch movies for free.

Wayne

 

[okikuma]

No uhf in my early days in the boon docks! I can't remember living anywhere except Barstow, CA where there was a uhf channel, and that was much later, maybe 65!

During the late 1950s and early 1960s in the San Joaquin Valley of California, all the broadcast TV stations converted to UHF only stations.

Wayne

 

[WaspAir]

You fellows remember the DuMont network?

As I recall they were on WTTG Channel 5 in D.C. in the early 1950s. That's where I watched cartoons. I think the station is still around, long after the network died, but eventually evolved into a Fox affiliate.

 

[Mayfield]

The only one I remember for sure was WKRC. It was a Cincinnati channel that we got in the little town of Loveland, Ohio where we lived when I was 6 to 17.

Don't remember cartoons much but I remember Howdy Doody.

 

[Doug Riley]

Wayne, I go through the same drill teaching navigation to sailing students. We plan our trips using paper-and-pencil methods. My pitch to the "we can get that on our phones" crowd is twofold:

(1) little phone/GPS screens do not give you a good overview of your trip. If you zoom out far enough to see your trip on your teeny screen, you lose all detail

(2) one nearby lightning strike and all of your e-gizmos will be fried at once by EMP. You can try to use your oven as a Faraday cage if you have time to put the toys in there; best of luck to you with that slim thread.

What I don't usually say, but believe, is that there is no such thing as multi-tasking. Human brains are monaural. They do one task at a time. With practice, you get better at rapid toggling among tasks, but concentration goes out the window. Some tasks cannot be done without sustained concentration and immersion.

A student crewman a few years ago, steering in the wee hours by watching the screens, managed to get us turned around 180 deg. without noticing! He had a giant magnetic compass right in front of him, but never looked at it. Chasin' the guages, as Steve McGowan would say. We added a few unnecessary miles to that trip.

 

[okikuma]

Wayne, I go through the same drill teaching navigation to sailing students. We plan our trips using paper-and-pencil methods. My pitch to the "we can get that on our phones" crowd is twofold:

(1) little phone/GPS screens do not give you a good overview of your trip. If you zoom out far enough to see your trip on your teeny screen, you lose all detail

(2) one nearby lightning strike and all of your e-gizmos will be fried at once by EMP. You can try to use your oven as a Faraday cage if you have time to put the toys in there; best of luck to you with that slim thread.

What I don't usually say, but believe, is that there is no such thing as multi-tasking. Human brains are monaural. They do one task at a time. With practice, you get better at rapid toggling among tasks, but concentration goes out the window. Some tasks cannot be done without sustained concentration and immersion.

A student crewman a few years ago, steering in the wee hours by watching the screens, managed to get us turned around 180 deg. without noticing! He had a giant magnetic compass right in front of him, but never looked at it. Chasin' the guages, as Steve McGowan would say. We added a few unnecessary miles to that trip.

Doug,

It is fantastic that you provide that type of instruction. The question is, after they go out on their own boats, to they continue to practice what you taught them or do they revert back to their passive cognitive ways an let all the electronics perform the "thinking" for them?

At my most recent job, the majority of the young coworkers of mine used their GPS receivers everyday for all travel. One day, all those young workers on one shift were very late for work. The GPS signal in the local area had become degraded and every GPS receiver in the area became inoperative. None knew how to get to work without their GPS receiver and they became lost!

Total and continuous absence of situational awareness has become a lifestyle.

Wayne

 

[Mayfield]

Even before I retired the FAA was struggling with evaluating problems caused by pilots depending on technology exclusively.

From time to time the FAA has disseminated information to the DPE community that discourages cascading technology failures during practical tests.

Most private pilot applicants no longer show up for a practical test with paper charts and bound publications. The ACS requires applicants to be familiar with charts and publications but does not mandate paper.

Jim

 

[okikuma]

Even before I retired the FAA was struggling with evaluating problems caused by pilots depending on technology exclusively.

From time to time the FAA has disseminated information to the DPE community that discourages cascading technology failures during practical tests.

Most private pilot applicants no longer show up for a practical test with paper charts and bound publications. The ACS requires applicants to be familiar with charts and publications but does not mandate paper.

Jim

Jim,

40+ years ago when I worked as a weekend manager for a flight school and FBO, a student showed up with one of the very new electronic E8B calculators. He was so very proud of his new gizmo he was showing everyone. I asked to see the calculator, then took the batteries out and handed the E6B back to him. He started screaming like a four year old to give him back the batteries. I said, "the batteries are dead, what are you going to use now to compute?" He kept whining until I gave the batteries back. He then says he'll always carry spare batteries. I said, "Batteries have a shelf life. Are you going to be that diligent to always keep a fresh set?" I then took out of my desk my trusty aluminum E6B (which I still have and still use to this day). I said 'ooops" and dropped it on the floor, picked it up and said, "It still works. Not fragile, no batteries to go dead."

Paper sectionals don't fail when there is no electricity, and don't break when dropped.

Collateral subject:

How many know how to find North without a magnetic compass? Another reason why simple analog watches are still very valuable. I learned this valuable piece of information from my 5th Grade school teacher who was a retired U.S. Army O-6 Colonel.

Wayne

 

[WaspAir]

Use 1 instead of 12 for daylight time.
When you can't see sun or shadows on cloudy days, there's always the moss on the north side of trees. On clear nights, Polaris is easy to find. On cloudy nights, wait for dawn, and it will be in the east.

 

[MikeBoyette]

That was when my favorite show was Victory at Sea, but I couldn't stay up to watch. So I snuck out of my bedroom and watched around the corner! Never got caught!

Similar situation mine was MASH. I was in trouble and TV was taken away. I missed the last episode. Just recently saw it and was still heart broken after so many years.

 

[Aerofoam]

In the Sonoran desert, the barrel cactus point south........
I can't stand the screen charts for boating, the radar screen is a good general tool, but the full sized chart with all the rocks and reefs is mandatory if you want to stay on the bright side of the water line......

 

[Sv.grainne]

Similar situation mine was MASH. I was in trouble and TV was taken away. I missed the last episode. Just recently saw it and was still heart broken after so many years.

I was 5-6 years old, 1954/55, the show came on after my bedtime. As soon as I heard the theme play I crept down the hall, got down on the floor, watched! Woohoo

 

[Vance]

Not surprising. We have two generations of youth that spend the majority of their time with tunnel vision, intensely focused upon and staring at little multicolored screens most of their day. Totally oblivious to anything around them, lacking any situational awareness of everything outside their field of view. This learned behavior is brought into the car behind the steering wheel and into the cockpit.

Wayne

Army grounds aircraft for a safety review following recent deadly crashes

After 12 soldiers died in the last month the Army ordered a stand down to review safety measures for its fleet of aircraft.

taskandpurpose.com

Task & Purpose

Army grounds aircraft for a safety review following recent deadly crashes

The order comes after 12 soldiers died in the last month.

BY NICHOLAS SLAYTON | PUBLISHED APR 29, 2023 7:10 AM EDT

“We are deeply saddened by those we have lost,” McConville added in his statement. “It is their loss that makes it all the more important we review our safety procedures and training protocols, and ensure we are training and operating at the highest levels of safety and proficiency.”

I feel it is a mistake for the old people to blame young people and the youth culture for these military helicopter crashes.

It appears to me based on my experience road racing motorcycles if I am going to do something dangerous where there is no room for error; I need to do it often.

I see military pilots getting fewer hours than in the Vietnam era and trying to make up for the lack of flight time with flight simulators.

This appears to me to be poor management of a precious resource.

 

[Sv.grainne]

I don't think that there has been a significant reduction in flight hours for Army Aviators. Night ops and NVDs were not used in Vietnam. New technology, new tactics, may be more to blame. I think it is incredible what these pilots are trained to do and carry out on a daily basis.

 

[okikuma]

I feel it is a mistake for the old people to blame young people and the youth culture for these military helicopter crashes.

It appears to me based on my experience road racing motorcycles if I am going to do something dangerous where there is no room for error; I need to do it often.

I see military pilots getting fewer hours than in the Vietnam era and trying to make up for the lack of flight time with flight simulators.

This appears to me to be poor management of a precious resource.

Every year I have to complete a Risk Management course as part of my DoD assignment. In this year's class, we all reviewed an accident that caused life altering injuries to three of the four crew members involved. I'm not allowed to give any specifics on who, what, or where. I can say that two of the crew members were sitting with tunnel vision looking at their phones and lacking any situational awareness when they should have remained as active participants of the crew. Their inattentiveness took away two sets of eyes and cognitive input that definitely would have helped prevent the accident. Their actions increased the level of risk for all involved. All four military members have been trained extensively and taught to remain situationally aware of their surroundings. This was not performed and an accident was the result.

Yes, the OG is blaming the young people involved because of their youth culture that caused life altering injuries. The exact reason why Risk Management courses are required every year in an attempt to break the negative behavior that causes negative outcomes.

Wayne

 

[okikuma]

I don't think that there has been a significant reduction in flight hours for Army Aviators. Night ops and NVDs were not used in Vietnam. New technology, new tactics, may be more to blame. I think it is incredible what these pilots are trained to do and carry out on a daily basis.

Bobby, you are correct. There hasn't been a reduction of flight hours. The training they receive is top notch and tactics and equipment used are effective. It is the deviation from the necessary methods of operation that ultimately increases the level of risk that evolves into negative outcomes.

Wayne

 

[bryancobb]

I haven't read the preliminary report but I will make a few general comments. 1) Two jets flying in tight formation can escape death if they "bump wings" in flight. They are usually much higher than helicopters and they have ejection seats. 2) Helicopters are much more dangerous when flying in formation because their wingtips that are likely to get bumped together are converging at 1000 MPH and if they lightly touch, the tailboom instantly snaps off and 5 seconds later, everyone is dead. The helicopters usually fly within 10 seconds of Earth, and occupants cannot eject.
As an ARMY trained helicopter pilot, I think NVG flying is about as dangerous as the last 80 seconds of a night carrier landing in a jet, and it doesn't end. You just fly and fly and fly some-more.

Lastly, because of lessons learned in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has made training more intense, more challenging, and more realistic. These pilots died while doing what they loved and they never had a chance to even get scared. May they rest in peace and may their families always be reminded that their loved ones died as a hero.

 

[MikeBoyette]

I haven't read the preliminary report but I will make a few general comments. 1) Two jets flying in tight formation can escape death if they "bump wings" in flight. They are usually much higher than helicopters and they have ejection seats. 2) Helicopters are much more dangerous when flying in formation because their wingtips that are likely to get bumped together are converging at 1000 MPH and if they lightly touch, the tailboom instantly snaps off and 5 seconds later, everyone is dead. The helicopters usually fly within 10 seconds of Earth, and occupants cannot eject.
As an ARMY trained helicopter pilot, I think NVG flying is about as dangerous as the last 80 seconds of a night carrier landing in a jet, and it doesn't end. You just fly and fly and fly some-more.

Lastly, because of lessons learned in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army has made training more intense, more challenging, and more realistic. These pilots died while doing what they loved and they never had a chance to even get scared. May they rest in peace and may their families always be reminded that their loved ones died as a hero.

Hoooah!

 

[samouced]

"Two jets flying in tight formation can escape death if they "bump wings" in flight. They are usually much higher than helicopters and they have ejection seats."

You know how to scare the crap out of a "TOPGUN" pilot? Put him in a helicopter and fly NOE. Jet fighter jockeys have nothing on helicopter pilots.