Are landings difficult?

willisbr

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All this talk bout landings... In simple terms it's like sex, not everyone is gonna do it the same way.

So you learn by watching others and renting lots of videos. Remember those videos and magazine's under daddy's bed about...gyro landing? :D
 

Penguin

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All this talk bout landings... In simple terms it's like sex, not everyone is gonna do it the same way.

Great analogy, Matt.
Now I know why my girlfriend complains about my "dead stick landings".
And I'm offended.
 

GyroDoug

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Airgyro now has a sparrow hawk for training. I will be picking it up from GBA ASAP. I talked to them today and it is all approved.

Mike,

That's great news! I'll start spreading the word.

Steve,

Here's the best advise yet. Give Mike Burton a call and schedule some instruction time. Mike can show you all the different ways to do it, and you can learn for yourself what works best for you.
 

PW_Plack

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...Searching the FAA website gives 232 hits for gyroplane, but only 34 for gyrocopter (and about 2/3 of those all talk about the same accident), so usage in general appears to be improving.

Understood, but if you're talking with ATC in an area where they haven't seen many, controllers will be sometimes be confused by "gyroplane." I know it's moving. Maybe in 20 years the official term will find more widespread colloquial use.
 

WaspAir

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Understood, but if you're talking with ATC in an area where they haven't seen many, controllers will be sometimes be confused by "gyroplane." I know it's moving. Maybe in 20 years the official term will find more widespread colloquial use.

I try to train them wherever I go.

Interestingly, the most common error I get in the 18A is they respond to me as "experimental", and I have to correct that, too.
 

PW_Plack

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Interestingly, the most common error I get in the 18A is they respond to me as "experimental", and I have to correct that, too.

That's funny! Probably their own subtle educational outreach, since the requirement to identify as experimental on the first call is often ignored by pilots of experimentals.
 

birdy

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A gyro is flow almost onto the deck; the flare begins at an altitude of 6-12 inches.
That depends on the required approch Doug.
Theres a spot i land at often, where i have to literally 'drop' off the edge of a 60' tree line into dead air, with only bout 30 yards to hit, before i run into ol mates shed. ;)
Its harder wen theres good wind coz ill be riden the ridge lift till im clear of the trees [ coupla times i wasnt quite clear] at low power n AS, then chop power n drop into the dead stuff, so the flair can need to be 40' sumtimes to give the machine time to pitch up n gain rrpms.
 

Redbaron

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just another day on the job ey bird! whats your disk loading?

A gyro is flow almost onto the deck; the flare begins at an altitude of 6-12 inches.
That depends on the required approch Doug.
Theres a spot i land at often, where i have to literally 'drop' off the edge of a 60' tree line into dead air, with only bout 30 yards to hit, before i run into ol mates shed. ;)
Its harder wen theres good wind coz ill be riden the ridge lift till im clear of the trees [ coupla times i wasnt quite clear] at low power n AS, then chop power n drop into the dead stuff, so the flair can need to be 40' sumtimes to give the machine time to pitch up n gain rrpms.
 

birdy

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No idea.
26' TWGGs with bout 250 - 300kg hangn off um.
 

Redbaron

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At your lightest auw of 250kg you got a disk loadin of 1.03 compared to my bees 1.06, no wonder u always hangin against the straps! :lol:
I'm sure you don't always fly that light though.

No idea.
26' TWGGs with bout 250 - 300kg hangn off um.
 

birdy

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I'm sure you don't always fly that light though
As often as possable Red.
Fuel is dead weight, and it slows the rate and general performance, so i like to keep it light if i can.
 

NoWingsAttached

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One of the best pilots I know told me the bubble went away from under his rotors at Mentone in a rather mild changing cross-wind this year, and said he'd like to have the bigger disk over his head like I run these days for just that reason. THe bigger disk floats and forgives a lot more landings than the high-AS undersized rotors do. Beginners should not be flying minimum disk diameters, bigger is better as far as I am concerned, so long as you maintain sufficient disk loading.

No matter what, your hand better be on that throttle. THat's what I am talking about.

I like to land several ways: little AS, vertical drop, engine at low rpm, then drop the nose, gain AS and flare with minimal GS.

Next, I like the roll-out landing: Kill the engine at 150-200ft, turn gracefully 180 degrees and flare just as I complete the turn.

Then there is the high-speed rotocraft taxi. My gyro lives at the last taxi approach at the very N end of RW 35. I like to come in, cruise up the taxiway at 10-20 ft and drop it in at my end with no pavement left in front of me. There is a rise in the grade, and I let the ground come up to me. All I have to do is turn left and taxi off.

Finally comes the cross-wind landing, where you come up the active at 30-50 ft, get to your end of the RW, then turn 90 degrees into the wind and land on the approach, just in front of your hangar.

But in the beginning, you need to stick to the basics: 200 feet AGL, kill the power, and land it with a proper flare, no power changes from 200-0 feet. After you master that lesson, time to move on and try new things at some point. If you do only that, you won't be prepared for a real engine out, or nasty rolling horizontal tube of turbulence that sucks the lift out of your rotors in an instant.

Those can be described as a real sphincter re-acquaintance as I recall, and can be saved by judicious and expedient application of FULL throttle, ending in a harmless go-around, even if your wheels have already touched down.

That's what i meant. I, at one point, did not apply throttle to save a bad landing, and it cost me a set of rotors and a new mast. THe wind was coming at my nose at 25-35 mph, I flared too high, and it suddenly changed direction 90 degrees to my right. A rolling tube sucked the bubble out from under my rotors at the same time, and I went down harder than just a drop from a high flare, I got sucked down. Had I throttled up I would likely have easily saved it, but as it was I found myself duckwalking in a 25 mph cross wind, lifting me up and over. Not good. I'll never let such a stupid deficiency in power application throw me around like that ever again.

Power, baby. Power. It can save your butt. Don't be afraid to use it for fear of losing some silly "style" points.
 
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GyroDoug

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I, at one point, did not apply throttle to save a bad landing, and it cost me a set of rotors and a new mast. THe wind was coming at my nose at 25-35 mph, I flared too high, and it suddenly changed direction 90 degrees to my right. A rolling tube sucked the bubble out from under my rotors at the same time, and I went down harder than just a drop from a high flare, I got sucked down. Had I throttled up I would likely have easily saved it, but as it was I found myself duckwalking in a 25 mph cross wind, lifting me up and over. Not good. I'll never let such a stupid deficiency in power application throw me around like that ever again. .

In the past when I have brought up the Butterfly's "G-Force Landing Gear" and touted it as a safety feature, I have often gotten replies that basically state that it is really an unnecessary gimick and that if you will just learn to land correctly, you simply don't need to have that kind of suspension. While that may be true (at least most of the time) I think this story above is a good example of how "crap" occasionally happens and how flying a Gyro with the G-Force landing gear's capabilities can take an otherwise painful and expensive incident and turn it into a Non-Event. While no one can say what would have happened and each event is unique, it is highly likely that had this same situation happened to someone flying a Butterfly gyro with the G-Force Landing Gear, it would have just absorbed the impact and been no big deal. To me, that seems to be a substantial safety feature.

That said, if you don't have that feature available to you, learning to add power to save a bad landing is a VERY GOOD IDEA. Thanks for sharing that story and hopefully we can all learn from it.
 
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