Are landings difficult?

Amen, Birdy.

I power down to idle just before or after turning base and put my throttle hand in my lap. Every landing should be a practice deadstick, IMHO.

I have seen gyro "pilots" descend to landing height at the downwind end of a runway and power up and down three, four or five times before finally putting it down, at the far end. Disgraceful.

Of course, use throttle if necessary to go around, or to save yourself if you get tossed by a gust.

It is a bad habit to rely on throttle routinely in landings, though. Your goal shoud be to glide in at idle, with sufficent airspeed to allow you to level out, flare and touch down, all at idle. Then turn it off on final and practice the real thing.

Landings are very easy once you get the hang of it. The gyro's steep glide angle, and very limited float, make it easy to aim the machine at a selected touchdown spot.

Well said, Birdy, Doug and Resasi.
This is a point of some ... controversy ... in our hangar. :argue:

Not to hijack the thread, but advice on practicing power out landings might be useful. I know that it would be to me.

I go to about 300' AGL, chop power to a fast idle of about 2200rpm (to prevent 'chatter' in the drive train), begin a vertical descent, nose down to maintain an airspeed of about 40 mph, round out at about 50' and land as normal.
 
My best advice for gyro landing is this: THROTTLE.

You can erase most EVERYTHING bad in a gyro landing if you can get yourself steeled to just throttle up in the event of a bad landing and trust the machine to do what it will do - take off immediately and never f *** you up on the touch down.

That takes proper training, and a good CFI that can make you comfortable with the whole situation. And if you buy a machine with one of those cutesy, tiny little stoopid balls to grab onto for a throttle handle, like they use on powered hang gliders that never fly in 10 mph winds, BEEF IT UP to a STICK so you can relocate it if your hand gets knocked off it in a bounce landing situation. YOU CAN STILL THROTTLE UP AFTER YOU HIT THE GROUND TO SAVE A BAD LANDING....IF you can find the throttle lever.

I disagree with this. Making a habit of landing with throttle is lazy and could get one in trouble in getting behind the curve. I've seen people that like to land with throttle and they end up in a situation where they are pulling more back stick to get down when realy they need to be laying off the throttle. Now they are full back with power which is a completely useless situation. Nose high, squirly rudder, crappy ground effect in that configuration. Pull the throttle to idle, get beat glide, leave it alone. The only time I would throttle in is jn gusty conditions and even that would depend on presense of shear or downdraft.
 
While we have all been unanimous in our feelings about the use of power while landing, in fairness to Gerg, I think he is not advocating the use of the throttle in the approach, simply it's prompt application when salvaging a bad landing.
 
Leigh, you may be right. In general, I think it's better to power up and go around than to try to power back into position and land farther down the runway.

The "power up, then set it down" maneuver is just a bad habit -- and it often leads to a lousy landing anyway. You get behind the power curve, the machine rolls to "won wheel lo" position from torque, the nose yaws around from P-factor, and you end up with crossed controls and quite a complicated mess on your hands. Go around and try it again -- and this time, throttle to idle and make it clean.

Larry's maneuver sounds fine to me, as long as it doesn't confuse the fixed-wingers and as long as you nose down out of the vertical descent without needing to add power.

I have been yelled at by FW-ers who think I'm "cutting them off" in the pattern if I drop in from above to a short final and they happen to be back there on their 10-mile final. Many FW pilots, even in little 152's, fly huge patterns -- I suppose because they don't want to turn to final when low. These things can stall in turns and just fall out of the sky, I hear.;)
 
...I have been yelled at by FW-ers who think I'm "cutting them off" in the pattern if I drop in from above to a short final and they happen to be back there on their 10-mile final...

Refer them to the FAA's 1993 Advisory Circular, AC 90-66A, regarding traffic patterns at airports, which says, in part (emphasis mine):

9. A. Rotorcraft

(2) All pilots should be aware that rotorcraft may fly slower and approach at steeper angles than airplanes...

(3) In the case of a gyrocopter approaching to land, the pilot should avoid the flow of fixed-wing aircraft until turning final for the active runway...

(5) Both classes of rotorcraft can be expected to practice power-off landing (autorotation) which will involve a very steep angle of approach and high rate of descent (1,500-2,000 feet/minute).


In the case of a gyroplane, of course, all landings involve autorotation, so it's not like we have a choice. (Or, as the FAA often still calls them, "gyrocopters.")

To be fair, I think this is another important argument to use a radio around busy airports. They can't watch for you if they don't know you're there.
 
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That's it, Paul. They are staring at the runway, not looking up for a tiny gyro at 800 feet, way above them at the top of their windshield but dropping at 1500 ft./min.

To them, our normal flying procedures are seriously weird.
 
In the case of a gyroplane, of course, all landings involve autorotation, so it's not like we have a choice. (Or, as the FAA often still calls them, "gyrocopters.")

The FAR 1.1 definitions section, and the rest of the FARs, use only "gyroplane". This old Advisory Circular is one of relatively few places left where you will find the "copter" variant of the term (the Rotorcraft Flying Handbook, for example, mentions it as a Bensen trademark only). Sometimes an accident report will use it, but even the NTSB database search engine recognizes only gyroplane as a class delimiter.

Searching the FAA website gives 232 hits for gyroplane, but only 34 for gyrocopter (and about 2/3 of those all talk about the same accident), so usage in general appears to be improving.
 
Amen, Birdy.

I power down to idle just before or after turning base and put my throttle hand in my lap. Every landing should be a practice deadstick, IMHO.

Doug, I can't think of many times when I thought you were just wrong, but on this one I do. I have been hit during landing by a rotor over trees, and had the air just fall out below me. If i had my hand in my lap, I doubt that I could have reacted fast enough to salvage it. I only have 3 controls to use when things go awry, and I would never consider giving up one of them during landing unless it was forced on me.
 
Joe, I'm with you on the hand on the throttle idea. Having been dumped by a wind rotor at my airstrip several times, there's no way my hand would be off the throttle anywhere on final. Especially not in my RAF.
 
I will add an occasional 'jab' of the throttle one second before the mains touch if I don't like how things are working out. I am one of a few guys running a rigid frame, so I have to 'grease' it on. Ain't no shame in adding thrust if you need it. Plus it's cheaper.:sad:
 
This is exactly the kind of stuff I need to hear about. This, and Vances new thread on gyro landing procedures. Just what I need. Thanks everyone.

One of the things I am hearing about gyro landings that seems much friendlier than FW landings is that when you touch down there is little or no forward roll. In a FW when you touch down you suddenly find your self going 40 MPH on a squirrely little tricycle, trying to steer it with your feet. This is one of the things that I always had a hard time with.

Steve
 
Hey steve, what fixed wingers have you flew?

For me most of the pedal work is just before taking off as the nose wheel lifts and I goto full power, gotta hold a little right pedal.

I think you will find landing easier than taking off.

This is exactly the kind of stuff I need to hear about. This, and Vances new thread on gyro landing procedures. Just what I need. Thanks everyone.

One of the things I am hearing about gyro landings that seems much friendlier than FW landings is that when you touch down there is little or no forward roll. In a FW when you touch down you suddenly find your self going 40 MPH on a squirrely little tricycle, trying to steer it with your feet. This is one of the things that I always had a hard time with.

Steve
 
Mike the only suspension on a Bensen is the air in the tyres.:)

The Hornet in comparison however is a Caddy ride.
 
Here's a clip of me flaring high and sliding in some power for the money landing. Approach was just over 3k rpm. I always approach with 2800-3000 as the drag is similar to engine out. I was taught that if you put in power, leave it in until you are on the ground or push more in and go around. (the back up was on purpose)

RAF 2000 Gyroplane - High Flare Landing - YouTube
 
I completely agree with whoever said it first: each landing should be a power off landing. But I would never take the hand from the throttle lever;it's too important a control that can save my day if needed.

There are different style landings for different situations. When I fly at a big airport with a huge runway and other traffic present, I pretend I am a normal plane and keep some power in and my speed up, fly a flatter approach and only cut the power during the flare. This is my "747" landing.

When I can safely be a true gyro, I will remain at pattern altitude virtually until I turn a tight base. Then I reduce power to idle, make a steep approach and land.

When I need need to make a short field landing I slip the gyro in to steepen the approach path further and straighten it out during the flare. I don't like the "vertical descent" short field technique that's taught by some schools over here. In essence, this would be come in 4-500 feet AGL, reduce speed to zero, let the gyro descend to about 250 feet AGL, then aggressively put the nose down, gain landing speed, flare and land. But short field landing techniques may be another thread yet...

When I want to land with minimal or no ground roll (and don't have room to load up the rotor) I make a normal power off approach but add progressively power during the flare while raising the nose proportionally. You end up with your nose pointing way up and going about 30 km/h when you're one foot off the ground. Then I chop the power, the gyro settles immediately, and there is no ground roll to speak of. This is my "win every spot landing contest" landing technique and can only be done in gyros with sufficient ground clearance of the HS.

-- Chris.
 
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with sufficent airspeed to allow you to level out, flare and touch down, all at idle.
And aim for a predetermined spot.
Any ol dic can cut power n land it, but tell um to land it ona spot without power from 300' ona gusty day [ like youd have to in a real deadstick] and theyll miss by a mile.

I have been hit during landing by a rotor over trees, and had the air just fall out below me.
Joe, ina real deadfstick, you dont get to choose wot air your go'n to land in.
You gota read the surface conditions before you get to um, and make allowences on your approach.

This is one of the things that I always had a hard time with.
No landn roll was the big attraction for me too Steve, coz 99% of the ground im flyn over you can only spot it if it goes quiet. And youd certainly never have room for even a short TO.

Youd never land ya FW like the end of this flic Steve. ;)
Birdy flying his Feral gyrocopter, Part 1 - YouTube
 
Jeff,

Sorry for the delay, I only just got back to a computer. The FWs I've flown are; C-150, C-172, Katanna, Rans S-6, Tecnam P-2002, C-163. About 90 hours total in "fits & starts" over the past 3 years.

Steve
 
Experience in even a small FW will lead you to flare a gyro way too high. A gyro is flow almost onto the deck; the flare begins at an altitude of 6-12 inches. Draggy ultralights are landed the same way for the same reason -- these craft just don't float very far or very long.
 
All this talk bout landings... In simple terms it's like sex, not everyone is gonna do it the same way. Yet, the final conclusion usually ends up how you would expect. Early on it's a little awkward but after a couple hundred tries at it you get better. Then you experiment a little with some less than ideal situations and find out what works for you.

Eventually you will find others (gyros ;)) out there and learn to experiment with them and learn their little quirks and what makes em tick. The overall combined experiences will make you a better (pilot ;)) and you will be answering the same questions you have just asked to a new generation.

You can tell from the forum that we men have given you our takes on how to "do it" but you will find out for yourself one day because much like sex, everyone can tell you how to do it, but until you saddle er' up for the first time and see how she (the gyro) feels you can only guess what it's like.
 
Airgyro now has a sparrow hawk for training. I will be picking it up from GBA ASAP. I talked to them today and it is all approved.
 
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