AR1 Trailer Ideas

[dunc]

Noting Abid's comment about keel support and seeing what he did for trailering my new AR-1C, I am building out an enclosed trailer and following his guidelines. One thing I found was that pulling down and inward on the main gear D rings causes the spring gear to flex and main tires creep after a few miles and a few bounces. I have added some 2x4 braces on the floor against the main wheels to mitigate this creep. I also had an issue with the front tire strap when routed over the tire as seen in his accompanying photo on his AR-1 Safety Directive 6" thread. The strap came off in spite of also using tie-wraps. Two straps on either side of the front wheel over the front axle is more secure worked much better. Be sure to check for signs of any cutting or wear on the strap.

I am about to address the critical keel support. Abid's team used used an old tire as a lower shock-absorbing brace which did not work well. I was considering using a small inflated tube/tire for support as I already have an air compressor on board, but think this still may not be rigid enough to keep the gyro from rocking back and forth on its main gear. Securing both the front tire and keel on either side of the main wheels also seems a bit counter-intuitive, but the newest AR-1 empenage is also larger, thus a bit heavier and prone to wiggle.

Please send samples of what you have found works best for keel support .

The attached photo shows my swing-out hoist constructed, attached to the outside of trailer, and used once so far. A small manual block and tackle proved a bit difficult to manage (but no damage!), and that will likely be replaced. Looking for ideas here too.

See you all down the road!

-Dunc

 

[Sv.grainne]

I made a keel support block out of some oak and use two captive pins to hold it in place. I'll post a pic later, right now I'm "pinned to my chair".

 

[dunc]

Works well for you? Do you use any cushioning against the keel? Any improvements considered?

 

[Sv.grainne]

Yes, 1/4 rubber pad. Strap over the keel to 2 Drings.




Strap holds the keel in place

 

[Sv.grainne]

Also have cradles for the wheels.

 

[MikeBoyette]

We had that big yellow trailer dad towed all over the country. We would tie the main gear down to d rings that were imbedded in the floor. Just tight enough to keep them bouncing loose. There were also metal chocks on both sides of the wheel to keep from rolling. We always left the gear loose so the suspension could still cushion the gyro over bumps. The nose was tied down to the d-ring in the floor using a rope through the ring installed during building just below the pitot tube. That was pulled down tight against the spring. Also had a chock on the nose wheel too. Only had a few times that stuff came loose. Usually catch it before it cussed too much damage. Mostly body rubs maybe a nick on the prop.

 

[dunc]

We had that big yellow trailer dad towed all over the country. We would tie the main gear down to d rings that were imbedded in the floor. Just tight enough to keep them bouncing loose. There were also metal chocks on both sides of the wheel to keep from rolling. We always left the gear loose so the suspension could still cushion the gyro over bumps. The nose was tied down to the d-ring in the floor using a rope through the ring installed during building just below the pitot tube. That was pulled down tight against the spring. Also had a chock on the nose wheel too. Only had a few times that stuff came loose. Usually catch it before it cussed too much damage. Mostly body rubs maybe a nick on the prop.

Thanks Mike. What was the Gyro type? The AR-1 has a pretty big empenage at the end of 2x2 square stainless boom.

 

[Abid]

Noting Abid's comment about keel support and seeing what he did for trailering my new AR-1C, I am building out an enclosed trailer and following his guidelines. One thing I found was that pulling down and inward on the main gear D rings causes the spring gear to flex and main tires creep after a few miles and a few bounces. I have added some 2x4 braces on the floor against the main wheels to mitigate this creep. I also had an issue with the front tire strap when routed over the tire as seen in his accompanying photo on his AR-1 Safety Directive 6" thread. The strap came off in spite of also using tie-wraps. Two straps on either side of the front wheel over the front axle is more secure worked much better. Be sure to check for signs of any cutting or wear on the strap.

I am about to address the critical keel support. Abid's team used used an old tire as a lower shock-absorbing brace which did not work well. I was considering using a small inflated tube/tire for support as I already have an air compressor on board, but think this still may not be rigid enough to keep the gyro from rocking back and forth on its main gear. Securing both the front tire and keel on either side of the main wheels also seems a bit counter-intuitive, but the newest AR-1 empenage is also larger, thus a bit heavier and prone to wiggle.

Please send samples of what you have found works best for keel support .

The attached photo shows my swing-out hoist constructed, attached to the outside of trailer, and used once so far. A small manual block and tackle proved a bit difficult to manage (but no damage!), and that will likely be replaced. Looking for ideas here too.

See you all down the road!

-Dunc

Rob
This is how this gyro went to Missouri and this is how it just came back without any creep (?). It was rock solid secured on this trailer. This trailer is made to carry a max payload of 2000 pounds. May be that is the difference. Do notice the back wheels pulled in at a sharp angle forward and backward. Those angles are important. I know your trailer's frame is made of Aluminum. I do not know for sure but may be the frame deflects a lot more than steel? Because this is the first time I have heard among 7 trailers people used where the front strap did not hold and then the mains creeped.
For the block and tackle, I would suggest a 4 pulley version with a 7:1 ratio. I think yours is not a 4 pulley version.

https://amzn.to/3Gz05Xo

 

[BEN S]

Be VERY wary about keel supports, ask Dave Bacon how he feels about that!
We arrived at Utah fly in and his engine mount had cracked because we used a firm keel support. Mike has the right idea.
My trailer which is the 3rd iteratiion of gyro trailering all over the country, tie down the wheels, use the gyros suspension, they make tire nets that go into fast tracks. I use permanent wheel chocks in front and strap nets over the tires. Also no matter what ANYBODY tells you, do NOT leave the rotor on the mast, you cannot chock it well enough to prevent flattening of the bearings....one big pot hole you can't avoid and all of a sudden your blades arent silky smooth anymore.

 

[BEN S]

If you can't live without a keel support, hang bungees from the roof and go under the keel to keep it from bottoming out, the rubber ones truckers uses tripled up is a hell of an arangement, but still springy.
any hard mount will transmit shock to your bird

 

[BEN S]

Also spend a lot more time on you ramps than you might think. they can make or break your rig. I know!

 

[Abid]

If you can't live without a keel support, hang bungees from the roof and go under the keel to keep it from bottoming out, the rubber ones truckers uses tripled up is a hell of an arangement, but still springy.
any hard mount will transmit shock to your bird

Keel support should be soft like an old tire or just some styrofoam block. It is just a backup

 

[MikeBoyette]

Thanks Mike. What was the Gyro type? The AR-1 has a pretty big empenage at the end of 2x2 square stainless boom.

Dominator two place and Dominator single place. Blades were slung on the side walls leading edge down.

 

[dunc]

Also spend a lot more time on you ramps than you might think. they can make or break your rig. I know!

Thank you Ben. The trailer is a car hauler with a low ramp. My motorhome also can adjust the air driven rear suspension height thus hitch height to ensure a slight upward slopw. I ready installed a remote controlled winch which worked great.

 

[BEN S]

I use a remote control winch on my Jib arm for blade installation, I have a full length blade box so I don't need to disassemble them. But I have found with at least the Harbor Freight winches I have been using, I went away from a remote winch for the ramp up and down operations, went to a hand crank and web used for boat trailers. I had my remote on the winch while winching off stay in the winch mode when I released the button! if it had been going the other way it might well have ripped my front nose wheel off before I could have stopped it.
ymmv

 

[dunc]

Rob
This is how this gyro went to Missouri and this is how it just came back without any creep (?). It was rock solid secured on this trailer. This trailer is made to carry a max payload of 2000 pounds. May be that is the difference. Do notice the back wheels pulled in at a sharp angle forward and backward. Those angles are important. I know your trailer's frame is made of Aluminum. I do not know for sure but may be the frame deflects a lot more than steel? Because this is the first time I have heard among 7 trailers people used where the front strap did not hold and then the mains creeped.
For the block and tackle, I would suggest a 4 pulley version with a 7:1 ratio. I think yours is not a 4 pulley version.

https://amzn.to/3Gz05Xo

Abid, thank you for your comments. I don't doubt that gyro pictured made it to Missouri. But Colorado is a bit farther from your shop in FL. Perhaps the more obtuse tie-down crossover angle made the difference. I did not change what you used for my trailer for the last 1500 miles.

I think the front wheel strap became loose as the tire you used on the keel came loose when the screws pulled through the straps. The front wheel tie wraps broke, and whole gyro rotated as the front wheel came out of the homemade tire cradle.

The trailer was purchased derated with softer six ply tires deflated to 35 psi and the smallest axle weight rating offered by the trailer manufacturer.

The nifty-lift.com block and tackle I used has a 4:1 ratio, which I thought sufficient for an 80 lb rotor. Holding the thin cord was a comfort issue. It worked otherwise.

I would never trailer a gyro with the rotor attached. I extensively open trailered my RAF for two trouble free years prior to the AR-1 and new enclosed trailer. In both cases, the rotor blades were boxed and padded.

 

[dunc]

I use a remote control winch on my Jib arm for blade installation, I have a full length blade box so I don't need to disassemble them. But I have found with at least the Harbor Freight winches I have been using, I went away from a remote winch for the ramp up and down operations, went to a hand crank and web used for boat trailers. I had my remote on the winch while winching off stay in the winch mode when I released the button! if it had been going the other way it might well have ripped my front nose wheel off before I could have stopped it.
ymmv

Good point on the remote control failure mode! The winch is quite powerful. I was already angry at the trailer salesman for ordering a 2 ft longer trailer than I wanted, but it was enroute to Zephyrhills, and I figured I will fill any available space regardless.

 

[Abid]

Abid, thank you for your comments. I don't doubt that gyro pictured made it to Missouri. But Colorado is a bit farther from your shop in FL. Perhaps the more obtuse tie-down crossover angle made the difference. I did not change what you used for my trailer for the last 1500 miles.

I think the front wheel strap became loose as the tire you used on the keel came loose when the screws pulled through the straps. The front wheel tie wraps broke, and whole gyro rotated as the front wheel came out of the homemade tire cradle.

The trailer was purchased derated with softer six ply tires deflated to 35 psi and the smallest axle weight rating offered by the trailer manufacturer.

The nifty-lift.com block and tackle I used has a 4:1 ratio, which I thought sufficient for an 80 lb rotor. Holding the thin cord was a comfort issue. It worked otherwise.

I would never trailer a gyro with the rotor attached. I extensively open trailered my RAF for two trouble free years prior to the AR-1 and new enclosed trailer. In both cases, the rotor blades were boxed and padded.

Rob. We use the same system in tiring down sending gyros all to the way to Arizona, California and one went to Colorado in 2018 as well in commercial transport trucks and trailers.
This is the first one where things have bumped so much that straps came off of screws.
Anyway front tire strap can’t come off just because the keel backup tire came loose. That is just for redundancy in case front strap slides off. It is not a primary support from keeping front tire down. The front strap may have come loose because the mains shifted because angle of straps was not sharp possibly.
Definitely the mains probably should be secured at an angle strapped to the center. Maybe the angle on your toe downs did not preload the leaf spring in enough is all I can think off.

 

[dunc]

I use a remote control winch on my Jib arm for blade installation, I have a full length blade box so I don't need to disassemble them. But I have found with at least the Harbor Freight winches I have been using, I went away from a remote winch for the ramp up and down operations, went to a hand crank and web used for boat trailers. I had my remote on the winch while winching off stay in the winch mode when I released the button! if it had been going the other way it might well have ripped my front nose wheel off before I could have stopped it.
ymmv

Good point on the remote control failure mode! The winch is quite powerful. I was already angry at the trailer salesman for ordering a 2 ft longer trailer than I wanted, but it was enroute to Zephyrhills, and I figured I will fill any available space regardless

Yes, 1/4 rubber pad. Strap over the keel to 2 Drings.

Sy, I like this idea, especially the quick remove mounting pins. How many trips/miles has this setup been road tested? How soft is the 1/4" rubber? When you cinch down the keel, does this raise the front tire or is it loosely cinched and not giving significant downward force? How much does the tail move vertically and horizontally when secured in this manner? Are you concerned about the trailer road bumps jarring the airframe and engine mounts as pointed out by Ben?

Questions, questions, questions, ;^)

 

[Sv.grainne]

Sy, I like this idea, especially the quick remove mounting pins. How many trips/miles has this setup been road tested? How soft is the 1/4" rubber? When you cinch down the keel, does this raise the front tire or is it loosely cinched and not giving significant downward force? How much does the tail move vertically and horizontally when secured in this manner? Are you concerned about the trailer road bumps jarring the airframe and engine mounts as pointed out by Ben?

Questions, questions, questions, ;^)

Medium density rubber.

I've made 8 trips about 90 miles one way on Texas Farm Roads.

I cinch the main axles down close to tires, fore and aft. Double strap behind axle attachment points on keel forward under the keel and over the nose wheel, lightly strap the keel down to the block. I also have a bridle that I slip over the rudder to keep it from moving. Removed one leaf from springs on each side.

Blades packed in shipping crate. Not concerned about damage to airframe or engine mounts. Rides nice from what I can see.