AR-2 Side by Side Gyroplane coming starting mid 2023

DavePA11

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As phase 2 of development it would be nice to have foldable wings for easier storage... We, gyro pilots, are spoiled by the way we can fit multipla machines in the same hangar... Maybe, do interchangeable win tips for various types of flying... ;)
That would complicate the design too much. Have to keep it simple.
 

Greg Vos

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All of this makes one wonder if it's even possible to learn to fly a gyro from ground zero (and obtain a certificate) without owning one first. :-( I really have no interest in fixed-wing aircraft.
Yes I’m sure you can you don’t need to own to complete the lic I was in talks with a gyro company in Canada a while back looking for an Instructor they offer this
I think you just need to provide insurance for the period you fly solo
it will IMO also be a good idea to get your lic first then decide what you want and need out of a gyro then aim to purchase that one.
If your up for it your welcome to come to us we can train you and issues you a SA lic that you can convert on your side after a check ride and FAA application.
It is cheap now with our rand trading at 18 to the Benjamin Franklin and we are going into really good Wx now, I often have guys coming from the UK to fly with me ( because I’m a great guy with an electric sense of humour🤣🤣) they also fall in love with the dramatic scenery SA offers
 

Mayfield

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There is a lot of character in flying a J3 Cub or a Champ or even a KitFox and you may find you enjoy it. A good taildragger pilot in my opinion makes a natural transition to a good gyroplane pilot
Exactly. Much of the skill set required to fly a conventional gear airplane is transferable. Probably the most apparent is the holding it off until it simply can't fly anymore when landing.

Jim
 

Abid

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Exactly. Much of the skill set required to fly a conventional gear airplane is transferable. Probably the most apparent is the holding it off until it simply can't fly anymore when landing.

Jim

Only problem is in my opinion a lot of airplane pilots are barely skilled. I mean their fundamentals are not good. Many did stick and rudder training seriously decades ago and ever since then have concentrated on instrument rating etc. Looking at big TV screens in front of them. That type of airplane pilot does not transition easily into a gyroplane. It takes them a much longer time. Your fundamental stick and rudder skills have to be correct and good.

Edit to add:
One of the things I continuously see from airplane pilots is mixing stick position for losing altitude and power to gain speed
Stick position is attitude and airspeed
Throttle is altitude
Leveling out in an airplane where some teach pushing stick forward first and then reducing power for instance does not work well in a gyroplane. Power reduction first then adjust stick position to desired speed
 
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Greg Vos

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Only problem is in my opinion a lot of airplane pilots are barely skilled. I mean their fundamentals are not good. Many did stuck and rudder training seriously decades ago and ever since then have concentrated on instrument rating etc. Looking at big TV screens in front of them. That type of airplane pilots does not transition easily into a gyroplane. It takes them a much longer time. Your fundamental stick and rudder skills have to be correct and good.
We find most helicopter guys have good stick and rudder skills ..for good reason
 

Greg Vos

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Exactly. Much of the skill set required to fly a conventional gear airplane is transferable. Probably the most apparent is the holding it off until it simply can't fly anymore when landing.

Jim
The difference is wind a gyro can handle wind the lighter fw aircraft are not as happy in high wind conditions and if you live in a windy spot this is consideration
 

PeterFromLA

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That would complicate the design too much. Have to keep it simple.
Why do you say that? It is clear this is not an entry level gyro to begin with... The way see it, you can order option one (simple), and I can order option 2 (a step above simple)...
 

querist

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Yes I’m sure you can you don’t need to own to complete the lic I was in talks with a gyro company in Canada a while back looking for an Instructor they offer this
I think you just need to provide insurance for the period you fly solo
it will IMO also be a good idea to get your lic first then decide what you want and need out of a gyro then aim to purchase that one.
If your up for it your welcome to come to us we can train you and issues you a SA lic that you can convert on your side after a check ride and FAA application.
It is cheap now with our rand trading at 18 to the Benjamin Franklin and we are going into really good Wx now, I often have guys coming from the UK to fly with me ( because I’m a great guy with an electric sense of humour🤣🤣) they also fall in love with the dramatic scenery SA offers
Sadly, I don't think a Canadian Gyro license would transfer to the US. I'll have to do some more exploring to find a solution. Eventually I intend to buy one, but I don't want to have to buy one just to be able to obtain the license. At least with a motorcycle I was able to learn to ride on dirtbikes first before buying a street bike and obtaining my license.
 

querist

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You have to commit to getting your own gyroplane after 5, 10 or 15 hours. Period. Gyroplanes unlike airplanes are not a rental type of aircraft. You can try and join the club that Dayton Dabbs has and that can allow you to solo without ordering one I guess. I do not know your age but insurance will definitely look at that and also look at if you had any medical issues with FAA. They have to protect their business.
I would not discount airplanes either. There is a lot of character in flying a J3 Cub or a Champ or even a KitFox and you may find you enjoy it. A good taildragger pilot in my opinion makes a natural transition to a good gyroplane pilot
I'll try to get info from Dayton. I've not had any luck so far.
 

GyroChuck

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Sadly, I don't think a Canadian Gyro license would transfer to the US. I'll have to do some more exploring to find a solution. Eventually I intend to buy one, but I don't want to have to buy one just to be able to obtain the license. At least with a motorcycle I was able to learn to ride on dirtbikes first before buying a street bike and obtaining my license.
Not too hard to convert.
 

querist

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Not too hard to convert.
From the site:

The IPL allows for the conversion of:
  • aeroplane and rotorcraft-helicopter categories
They are very clear on the point that the only rotorcraft license that can be transferred is a helicopter. :-(

Also, FAA AC 61-135A is quite clear on that point as well.
 
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GyroChuck

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From the site:

The IPL allows for the conversion of:
  • aeroplane and rotorcraft-helicopter categories
They are very clear on the point that the only rotorcraft license that can be transferred is a helicopter. :-(

Also, FAA AC 61-135A is quite clear on that point as well.
Bummer, I did not notice that. You would think since it's from 2015 it would have been updated since then to include gyroplane.
 

DavePA11

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Why do you say that? It is clear this is not an entry level gyro to begin with... The way see it, you can order option one (simple), and I can order option 2 (a step above simple)...
It’s been my experience that any changes for a gyro manufacture takes a lot of time so best to keep it simple and safe. I keep hearing SC is evaluating engines and this impacts everything in the design and costs tons of money so don’t ever expect that to be finished… same thing with any flight control being hinged.
 

PeterFromLA

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It’s been my experience that any changes for a gyro manufacture takes a lot of time so best to keep it simple and safe. I keep hearing SC is evaluating engines and this impacts everything in the design and costs tons of money so don’t ever expect that to be finished… same thing with any flight control being hinged.
Basically you are correct, but my statement was based on my understanding that we were piling wish list items on Abid... I think his shoulders can handle few "impossible" requests... and who knows, maybe we'll ger intercheable wing tips... ;)
 

Loren Jones

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Leveling out in an airplane where some teach pushing stick forward first and then reducing power for instance does not work well in a gyroplane. Power reduction first then adjust stick position to desired speed
Well, that IS the correct way to level a fixed wing airplane. It's a matter of teaching transitioning FW pilots the differences in a gyro. I didn't find it a particularly difficult transition.

Loren
 

Abid

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Well, that IS the correct way to level a fixed wing airplane. It's a matter of teaching transitioning FW pilots the differences in a gyro. I didn't find it a particularly difficult transition.

Loren


That is only the right way to level a fixed wing if your climb speed (Vy) is not your target cruise speed. Meaning you climb at 67 kts (Vy) and your target S&L speed is 80 Kts.
If your target cruise speed is the same as your climb speed you do the same as you would in a gyroplane. Reduce power as you level simultaneously. Well actually in a gyroplane it is actually better to do power before pitch slightly
Again the concept is the same in both. But airplane pilots all seem to have little clarity why they are doing it that way. Many of them apply the technique almost by rote. Flying by the numbers but not by understanding
 

Loren Jones

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That is only the right way to level a fixed wing if your climb speed (Vy) is not your target cruise speed. Meaning you climb at 67 kts (Vy) and your target S&L speed is 80 Kts.

That's a little like saying "Pulling the stick back at rotation is only the right way of doing things if you want to go flying." I've been teaching people to fly for 45 years and I can't think of a private or commercial maneuver that would have you level off for cruise at a climb speed. Most people fly airplanes to get places more quickly than driving. Climb speed in most trainers isn't much above current highway cruise speeds.

Now, this might be a useful exercise if you're a training a future gyro pilot in an airplane. But even in that scenario, if they reduced power first they would lose airspeed fairly quickly at that AOA, so it would have to be a simultaneous push on the stick together with the power reduction.
 

MikeBoyette

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That is only the right way to level a fixed wing if your climb speed (Vy) is not your target cruise speed. Meaning you climb at 67 kts (Vy) and your target S&L speed is 80 Kts.
If your target cruise speed is the same as your climb speed you do the same as you would in a gyroplane. Reduce power as you level simultaneously. Well actually in a gyroplane it is actually better to do power before pitch slightly
Again the concept is the same in both. But airplane pilots all seem to have little clarity why they are doing it that way. Many of them apply the technique almost by rote. Flying by the numbers but not by understanding
Honestly I feel that trying to fly a gyro by the numbers eliminates the gyro experience. Flying a gyro should be done more by feel. I always felt like the gyro was an extension of my body. I can fly with no instruments at all in an open cockpit gyro. Davie had a Dominator that nothing more than a yaw string on it. It was was defective though. He had a problem it wouldn’t fly straight and level always sideways in a turn. It wouldn’t fly straight until time to land. On second thought all his machines fly like that so it might just be him lol
 

Abid

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That's a little like saying "Pulling the stick back at rotation is only the right way of doing things if you want to go flying." I've been teaching people to fly for 45 years and I can't think of a private or commercial maneuver that would have you level off for cruise at a climb speed. Most people fly airplanes to get places more quickly than driving. Climb speed in most trainers isn't much above current highway cruise speeds.

Now, this might be a useful exercise if you're a training a future gyro pilot in an airplane. But even in that scenario, if they reduced power first they would lose airspeed fairly quickly at that AOA, so it would have to be a simultaneous push on the stick together with the power reduction.

Not all airplanes. Champ, J3 Cub etc.
May be your assumptions are restricted because of the airplanes you fly.
Regardless it is still important to understand why you are doing the technique and not just learn by rote.
In gyroplanes, you may be climbing at 60 knots and you may want to do your downwind at 60 knots also and the same is true in a 150. You climb at 67 on crosswind and you would be leveling out on downwind right around the same speed.
A generic prescription of levelling by pushing stick forward always does not apply to even all scenarios in an airplane. Not every flight and every climb is a cross country. You are supposed to cut power and adjust attitude simultaneously in an airplane if you want to maintain airspeed. It works. It also works the same in a gyroplane and works the same in a trike.
The difference in a gyroplane is even if you wanted to level out at a faster speed than your climb speed (Vy), you would still reduce power, level and then smoothly increase speed in a coordinated way with power. The reasons for that are obvious. Shoving stick forward with a bunch of power on is not a good practice in a machine that does not like to be unloaded. If you do it smoothly enough, nothing happens. If you do it like you are flying a 182, you'd see the G's go down for a little bit. Still likely nothing will happen in a gyroplane with an effective HS, but it is just not a desired practice in a gyroplane.
 
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Abid

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Honestly I feel that trying to fly a gyro by the numbers eliminates the gyro experience. Flying a gyro should be done more by feel. I always felt like the gyro was an extension of my body. I can fly with no instruments at all in an open cockpit gyro. Davie had a Dominator that nothing more than a yaw string on it. It was was defective though. He had a problem it wouldn’t fly straight and level always sideways in a turn. It wouldn’t fly straight until time to land. On second thought all his machines fly like that so it might just be him lol

It had a power/roll and power/yaw couple without rigging adjustments to compensate for that you mean?
 
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