thomasant, that "someone" was fara in his post #3. He spoke with you, so his reported details didn't come across like "pure speculation". I merely quoted what he posted:It is interesting to note how someone has posted that the gyro ran out of energy high off the runway. This is pure speculation, and that is the reason I am not seen on this forum anymore.
As with WaspAir, your "practicing autorotations" also caught my eye. Did you mean engine-idle landings?I talked to the pilot. In fact he called me. . . . It was simple pilot error brought on by sudden unexpected wind shear and sink and gyro ran out [o]f energy high off the runway and sunk down hard.
Interesting, AirCommandPilot, thanks.Along the grass runway here in Anahuac, there is a large patch of tall trees. With the wind direction coming from the West that day, there very well could have been some rotor coming off of the trees.
Yes, loftus, I generally agree; such was also my point here, and in previous thread (although bizarrely uncomprehended by one in particular).So I would still advocate slightly higher approach speed during gusty conditions, to decrease the risk of drop ins from up high during approach, and then a more nuanced adjustment of pitch as necessary during the roundout and on touchdown.
Thank you very much for coming on and explaining everything in detail. As I said in my posts it was all speculation in the absence of first person reporting, and thankfully you walked away, so you are able to do so. My questions respectfully are - where there any signs in terms of wind conditions that could have warned you that a gust like this was likely?thomasant;n1140980 said:Thanks for elucidating this Wasp. Your insight is always great.
Kolibri, since you wish to use this as a learning example, I'll try and explain it this way. What I have seen during short finals is that sometimes the air speed is dropped inadvertently, which can happen during gusts, and also with power changes. The sudden sink in a gust is quite noticeable and the initial tendency is to push the nose down to increase airspeed if the speed had reduced. This is when the ROD increases quite rapidly. Of course, there is still enough height to prepare for the flare. However, in many instances if the rate of sink seems uncomfortable for me, I have the student initiate a go round. So IMHO, the air speed is a critical factor in a landing till the flare.
Now what happens when there is a possible reversal of airflow like in a wind shear or sudden gust? the lift component can change perceptibly and the only way out if in the process of flaring is to open some power and either cushion the landing, or go around. So the use of available power is critical. Again it depends. If the aircraft is heavy, the power may not suffice. If the shear is quite strong, the power may not be enough and the climb out can be sluggish.
What could I have done differently? I really don't know. The only action I could take in the situation was to open full throttle. The fact that all three prop blades sheared at the hub usually is a sign that the engine was revving high.
This type of event is rare and if one is able to power out, all is well. Otherwise, a simplistic explanation is called Pilot Error, where the pilot screwed up the landing.
From 2' should not be a problem, it's getting to 2' safely I would think. Nothing that says the wind shear won't strike while you are getting down to 2' before the numbers. I guess the question is what is the safest speed, power setting and attitude to have in a gyro during that period when a sudden loss of lift may occur when one is higher than the aircraft can handle the impact. That's my question for all the CFI's.Kolibri;n1141018 said:During turbulence, the more I think it over the more I prefer my lower round-out at about 2' near the numbers.
From there I've plenty of runway to bleed off AS and rotor wash, and any wind shear I may experience will have little drama.
I then touchdown at a walking speed or less.
I agree. Having many times soloed in gliders, I think glider flying is a great prerequisite to any kind of piloting.I recommend some time in a glider to help them as pilots to better understand the moving air.
He then wondered aloud:Vance, any downdraft with sufficient energy to reach the ground, will.
This is not restricted to merely microbursts.
Apparently, to him, unless a downdraft is at 600+fpm microburst velocity, it will neither reach the ground nor spread out.If I am caught in a 600 foot per minute (6kts) down draft please tell me where the wind goes when it gets to the ground.
In a microburst it spreads in all directions as it collides with the ground because it is going much faster than 600 feet per minute.
This is pretty basic stuff and I cannot imagine why you refuse to grasp it.
Such was unavailing, as he just posted in this thread:Maybe you're right.
I just tried to blow away a piece of lint on the floor, from 2 vertical feet.
I couldn't do it because the downdraft of expelled breath didn't reach the ground because the air had nowhere to go.
It's amazing how the air knew that, and stopped on its own.
The air has nowhere to go as it gets near the ground because the ground doesn’t suck.
Perhaps somebody else will have better success in explaining to him that a downdraft with sufficient energy to reach the ground, will reach the ground and then spread out laterally.I personally find it comforting to know that down drafts don’t go all the way to the ground when I am in a 1,500 foot per minute downdraft and losing altitude rapidly despite wide open throttle.