AR-1 - N688G - Pennsylvania

[Tyger]

That's what the 40 hours of testing is supposed to be all about. You are the manufacturer. You HAVE to write your own, and sign off on it.

 

[Sv.grainne]

The POH for my kit was published for the aircraft. Has nothing to do with who builds it. I did not have the FAA asking for "my POH".

Nowhere in documentation or FAA requirements does it indicate that I am required to develop my "One Off" POH.

 

[Tyger]

Well its not even about rolling. Its about indicated airspeed. As soon as you turn "into the wind", that's your airspeed. If that airspeed is high and the stick is moved back basically that is the danger. If winds are gusty mainly, you should go to higher rotor RPM because in a large gust (gust spread) you can induce a flap even standing there and if stick is back, that will not be good

Totally agree. But if the winds are much over 30, I'm probably not going to be out there...

 

[Tyger]

The POH for my kit was published for the aircraft. Has nothing to do with who builds it. I did not have the FAA asking for "my POH".

That's because you have not finished (or started?) test flying it yet, now, have you? Until that test flying is done, you do not have a valid POH for that aircraft as actually built and tested.

 

[Sv.grainne]

Where do you get this?

 

[Tyger]

"It is imperative a flight manual describing the anticipated performance of the aircraft be written by the aircraft builder/kit manufac-
turer. The manual will be revised several times during the flight test phase until it accurately reports the aircraft’s performance."
AC 90-89A

 

[Sv.grainne]

Yes, the kit manufacturer did that and I'm using it. Have seen no indications that I need to change anything! Especially the initial prerotation speed.

 

[Abid]

Totally agree. But if the winds are much over 30, I'm probably not going to be out there...

Chicken

 

[Abid]

Yes, the kit manufacturer did that and I'm using it. Have seen no indications that I need to change anything! Especially the initial prerotation speed.

May be not pre-rotation RPM but certainly actual performance, fuel burn etc. should be for your particular build

 

[Greg Vos]

I've been training in an M16 lately and the POH says prerotate to 120rpm before bringing the stick back.

Yes at 120 the stick comes back over say a three second period, I prerotate to Rrpm of 170 ( magni it has heavy blades so no need to stress the pre rotation drive) then hold stick fully back, 170 Rrpm ( release the pre rotator) gently start taking power as the aircraft starts to move fwd the inflow will drive the rotor ….as this happens the Rrpm acceleration is swift you will feel the front wheel unstick ( at this point glance as I’m sure you would? at the Rrpm, MAP and IAS) at this point add power and gently put pressure on the stick ( forward) then full power, you will have gentle elegant lift off every time M16/22& M24 all the same must be the most forgiving gyro ever built

 

[Steve_UK]

The Butler Eagle featured a report of the YE activity that day

Young would-be pilots get a chance to soar

PENN TWP — Ally Moraca, 16, of Harrison City, might want to become a pilot. That’s why the high school junior made her third flight Saturday during the Young Eagles Day Rally at the Pittsburgh-Butler ...

www.butlereagle.com

 

[DavePA11]

No mention of the incident at all. That is a good sign.

 

[DavePA11]

Yeah, honestly this lawyer BS is starting to suck big time in the US. Growing up when I started getting interested in flying machines, I wanted to come to the US because I thought this is the place to be to fly and make flying machines. What I didn't know in mid 80's is how much US will change and how many kids will be on stupid computers and phones and social media instead of doing real stuff and how many sleazy lawyers and ambulance chasers are in the US.

BTW, talking of the J3 Cub ... I am looking for a Champ if you know anyone selling one

That is great you made your dream of building aircraft here in the US come true! Best country in the world for people to become successful. A bit harder now with the induced inflation, but that should start to go away in about 3 years…

I wanted to fly too when younger, and visited Emery Riddle school back in 81, but they were not placing anyone in jobs at the time. So I went to Penn State University for electrical engineering instead where everyone got jobs when graduated. Had an offer to work for NASA which I turned down for higher paying job. I could have been retired with pension if I took it. What an idiot I was back then! Got my license in an old Cessna 150 flying with hot dogging young instructors building time to become commercial pilots. Man we did crazy things. Lots of spins, flying on taxiway to get to end of runway, direct to end of runway from downwind, etc. All in class D airport too. That was fun. Sounds like IM’s flying…

We had a Champ sell for $25K locally. I talked to the owner and asked him why he is selling it for so little money and he told me it was what he paid for it… Those are the deals you want. Poor old guy…

Good to have you still posting here Abid. Many manufactures and CFIs don’t for whatever reason…

 

[loftus]

Talked to the pilot. Basically doesn't exactly remember what happened which is very typical but did say he was doing Young Eagles flight and pattern was busy, started pre-rotation on the hold short line and then started the takeoff run, about 200 feet or less felt like his one tire blew out because the gyro started going to the left off the runway and then heard the bangs and cut power to stop forced off the runway 100 feet to the left of runway and saw the tires were fine and his tail had been knocked off, all 3 blades of the prop were chopped and the rotor blades at the tips had grazed the ground.
Well its a classic Blade Sailing accident and he is lucky the gyroplane did not flip over. The turning tendency was due to retreating blade stall and forward blade sailing up. His right wheel must have started to get off the ground but the wider stance of AR-1 with a softer leaf spring is a bit more forgiving and harder to completely flip over. He says the blades have some paint marks but don't look like they got dinged too bad. I will have to see pictures to determine the extent of damage. I think his view may be too optimistic
He said he was a bit distracted because he was explaining to the Young Eagles kid passenger what he was doing as he was doing it.
Classic, change of procedure from lining up with runway and do pre-rotation to start pre-rotating at hold short, distraction due to talking to the kid while all this is happening and rushed because pattern was busy, and that was all she wrote. Doesn't remember the pre-rotation RPM, doesn't really remember the stick position, doesn't remember the airspeed. Thinks the stick position was at the back.
No injuries. Glad about that

General principal for me is no talking during takeoff and landing. Clear with passenger that all is OK before initiating takeoff, then no talking till well into the air.

 

[DavePA11]

Lotus - I found no talking doesn’t work well with the Young Eagle kids.

 

[loftus]

Lotus - I found no talking doesn’t work well with the Young Eagle kids.

Maybe I wasn't clear, no conversation between pilot and passenger. It's OK for me to talk and describe what I'm doing. I've done some Young Eagles, I just tell them in the preflight and before takeoff how we will proceed. I explain the takeoff sequence before starting it. It's maybe a 15-20 second period that I definitely don't want to do any back and forth. One can actually turn the talking process into something that enhances safety if one is actually verbalising the steps one is talking on take off, prerotate, brake off, accelerate, etc.
I also verbalize my preflight and inflight checklists whenever I fly (even without passengers). I also explain in the preflight the use of the push to talk button when the intercom is turned off. Sometimes on the approach to landing if they are not doing a great job with sheilding the mike from wind, I prefer to turn off the intercom if I have any trouble with hearing communications. It may not work for really young kids, but then I'm not comfortable with kids that are too young in my tandem airplane anyway.

 

[N962GT]

Anyone flying Young Eagles [ read complete strangers, kids as young a EIGHT ] - in a tandem gyrocopter with full controls in the rear seat and no way to monitor what the heck is going on back there - is probably inviting trouble. I removed the stick and throttle from my rear seat in preparation for flying strangers this season.

 

[Resasi]

In the late 60's I instructed in 2 Young Eagles programs in fixed wing. The first was in a Citabrias teaching basic handling to young cadets at a Military school. The second was an FAA/BATC joint Young Eagle experiment teaching youngsters 10 hrs initial PPL training solely with reference to instruments in 150's. In both cases the object of the exercise was to teach basic handling, and in this case dual controls were obviously necessary.

For any Young Eagle 'introduction to flight' program, the removal of stick and throttle in a rear cockpit tandem machine is I think a very sensible precaution, but probably not quite as important in a side by side.

I can relate that, when a student of mine panicked in an exercise for engine failure below VMC in a Twin Comanche, and instead of reducing the power on the good engine and dropping the nose to increase airspeed to above VMC, and accepting the altitude loss, he slammed on full power and raised the nose. The result was an instantaneous entry into a violent spin. His next reaction was to scream then throw his arms around me and bury his head in my lap. His death grip preventing me from pulling back the fully open throttle.

The Chief Instructor of the school had personally demonstrated to me what to do in the event of an inadvertent spin on my initial approval for twin instruction, and, had promised me that at some stage some student may accidentally do this. All school single engine exercises were consequently required to be done at or above 7,000' AGL. The descent rate in the Twin Com emulating a Catherine Wheel was scary. In the fairly short time it took to break free was around 3,000'.

The student was younger and slighter than I was, but I can say that to break his terrified grip around me, then bring back the power on the good engine and effect a spin recovery, took a massive effort on my part.

The idea of a badly frightened youngster in the back with access to stick/throttle/ignition/radio's can be scary.




It was certainly my impression that the production of a POH for the individual machine one has built, is part of the program.

 

[N962GT]

"Rotor Sailing"... OK, who invented this one?

In every helicopter handbook, including the FAA's, the VERTICAL motion of a rotor blade is referred to as BLADE FLAP, while not a single mention of "Rotor Sailing" can be found anywhere other than from these eurotub guys posting on RF discussing why their gyroplanes fail to get off the ground and maintain flight...

And no, it does not matter if the blades are individually hinged at the root or using a teetering, hard-coupled, two-blade rotor design such as found on most gyroplanes. Vertical motion of the rotor blade is still always referred to by the real pros as blade flap, which means Blade Sailing identifies the user as a wanna-be neophyte who doesn't really have a frim grasp on the technical lingo used in rotorcraft discussions. But, hey - cool was morphed into chill...so...why don't we all just update the lay terminology to meet the needs of special interests such as those of American Ranger/ Silverlight, etc?

I dunno. I suppose it can become popular enough to banter about in common chat, much like "eurotub" has been widely recognized as a variety of open-top, wide body tub type semi-enclosed gyroplanes over the years since...well, we all know where that one started.

Which leads one to conclude that this new phenomenon called "Blade Sailing" only occurs on eurotubs, and the rest of us lowly gyronauts scurrying about to get out of the way of the $100k club's TO don't need to concern ourselves with any such newly-invented nonsense, LOL. Maybe this started in India? Or Pakistan? Or wherever...

You guys crack me up. Stay safe and never stop learning how to fly.

 

[Abid]

Maybe I wasn't clear, no conversation between pilot and passenger. It's OK for me to talk and describe what I'm doing. I've done some Young Eagles, I just tell them in the preflight and before takeoff how we will proceed. I explain the takeoff sequence before starting it. It's maybe a 15-20 second period that I definitely don't want to do any back and forth. One can actually turn the talking process into something that enhances safety if one is actually verbalising the steps one is talking on take off, prerotate, brake off, accelerate, etc.
I also verbalize my preflight and inflight checklists whenever I fly (even without passengers). I also explain in the preflight the use of the push to talk button when the intercom is turned off. Sometimes on the approach to landing if they are not doing a great job with sheilding the mike from wind, I prefer to turn off the intercom if I have any trouble with hearing communications. It may not work for really young kids, but then I'm not comfortable with kids that are too young in my tandem airplane anyway.

It really depends on the pilot. As a CFI talking is part of the game and we do it all the time. But for someone not used to doing it and who is relatively not high time and specially when you have recently started flying again after winter break, probably a personal minimum of not conversing during takeoff and landing is a good idea.