Anyone know where I can get an original (or copy) Bensen Flight Training Syllabus?

[Charlie007]

I missed where anyone on this thread wrote that everyone in the USA uses check lists and insinuated pilots in the UK don’t.

Using check lists is a special emphasis area of the practical test standards for an FAA check ride.

There are many accidents that can be attributed to not using check lists all over the world.

The value of using check lists has been demonstrated repeatedly by airline transport pilots and test pilots the world over.

Agreed! But ..... horses for courses. some might say a Gyroplane has a fan blowing from the rear and a rotor autorotating from the top. Not really the same as a 747 or similar. We all know the scenarios where a checklist could and often does save the day. I could give you one example (from personal experience where following the checklist would have killed all 6 on board (including myself). I was not the PIC on that occasion but took over just intime to save everyone. I had no need to look at a checklist because I knew in great detail how this aircraft worked and what needed to be done which was NOT on the checklist. The PIC was not able to recover and pretty much threw his hands up in the air and accepted we were all going to plunge into the channel. He was not an engineer and did not realise/understand what had to be done. I never flew with him again after that so I hope he learned from it and is still alive.

Vance it was your comment 'In the USA use of check lists is part of the standards.' which potentially gave that impression. Why mention this is the way its done in the USA (where Gyros are relatively new ? Do you think there are Countries like England, Germany, France or Italy ie Europe (the collective inventors of gyroplanes) where Checklists are not used?
We have all gone a little off track here. The subject came up because it was suggested that one of the best Gyroplane Pilots you could ever meet broke his back and is now in great difficulty because someone re-engaged the control lock after removing it in the normal preflight process. People jumped in to suggest a checklist should have been used. He has more than 50 years Building, Flying, Instructing, Examining and doing Air Displays all over the world. I found it a little insulting for anyone to suggest he may not have used a checklist (sure no one actually used that phrase, but the topic came up and it went on from there.

Next I am being criticised for pointing out that the really excellent Gyro pilots obviously do not need a checklist. It goes without saying that teaching a student you would obviously encourage the practice but when flying solo in a machine where you know every single nut and bolt and mechanism because you assembled them all and manufactured some of them and tested them all and fine tuned them to perfection, it is ludicrous to say such a person must use his checklist each time he flies.

As I said, there is little point pursuing this further, we shall just have to agree to disagree.

 

[WaspAir]

Vance it was your comment 'In the USA use of check lists is part of the standards.' which potentially gave that impression. Why mention this is the way its done in the USA (where Gyros are relatively new ? Do you think there are Countries like England, Germany, France or Italy (the collective inventors of gyroplanes) where Checklists are not used?

Such nonsense!

Cierva was a Spaniard (not Brit, not German, not French, not Italian).

Kellett was an American.
Pitcairn was an American.
Bensen was an American.
Drago Jovanovich was a Serbian-American
Gilbert Devore was an American.
Then there's Brock, Parsons, DeGraw, and a host of others, working from the 1930s to the present. Current European high volume construction of dressed-up Bensen derivatives hardly counts as "invention".

I imagine that Vance cited U.S. practice only because he can authoritatively talk about FAA rules as it is within his expertise. He would not ordinarily presume to talk about regions where the practices are not familiar to him. You seem uninhibited in that regard.

 

[Vance]

Agreed! But ..... horses for courses. some might say a Gyroplane has a fan blowing from the rear and a rotor autorotating from the top. Not really the same as a 747 or similar. We all know the scenarios where a checklist could and often does save the day. I could give you one example (from personal experience where following the checklist would have killed all 6 on board (including myself). I was not the PIC on that occasion but took over just intime to save everyone. I had no need to look at a checklist because I knew in great detail how this aircraft worked and what needed to be done which was NOT on the checklist. The PIC was not able to recover and pretty much threw his hands up in the air and accepted we were all going to plunge into the channel. He was not an engineer and did not realise/understand what had to be done. I never flew with him again after that so I hope he learned from it and is still alive.

Vance it was your comment 'In the USA use of check lists is part of the standards.' which potentially gave that impression. Why mention this is the way its done in the USA (where Gyros are relatively new ? Do you think there are Countries like England, Germany, France or Italy (the collective inventors of gyroplanes) where Checklists are not used?
We have all gone a little off track here. The subject came up because it was suggested that one of the best Gyroplane Pilots you could ever meet broke his back and is now in great difficulty because someone re-engaged the control lock after removing it in the normal preflight process. People jumped in to suggest a checklist should have been used. He has more than 50 years Building, Flying, Instructing, Examining and doing Air Displays all over the world. I found it a little insulting for anyone to suggest he may not have used a checklist (sure no one actually used that phrase, but the topic came up and it went on from there.

Next I am being criticised for pointing out that the really excellent Gyro pilots obviously do not need a checklist. It goes without saying that teaching a student you would obviously encourage the practice but when flying solo in a machine where you know every single nut and bolt and mechanism because you assembled them all and manufactured some of them and tested them all and fine tuned them to perfection, it is ludicrous to say such a person must use his checklist each time he flies.

As I said, there is little point pursuing this further, we shall just have to agree to disagree.

I fail to see what your first paragraph has to do with check lists.

I often mention the FAA or the USA when writing of rules or standards because I don't know what the rules or standards are in other countries or under other governing bodies.

It is a fact that many aviation accidents are directly attributable to a lack of check list use.

It is a fact that airlines require their pilots to use of check lists.

It is a fact that military pilots in the USA are required to use check lists and memorize the emergency check lists.

It is a fact that a special emphasis area of the FAA practical test for Rotorcraft-Gyroplane and Sport Pilot Gyroplane is the use of check lists.

I feel it is a dangerous notion that good pilots don’t need check lists.

You sir are not being criticized; the notions that check lists are not important or that experienced pilots don’t need checklists are being refuted.

 

[Gyro-nut]

While I was not a pilot on the B-52, I was a crew member and our checklists were not optional. We had checklists to check our peers checklists
In over 10,000 hrs of flight time in that beautiful beast, I never 'missed' a step... I attribute that to the use of checklists. I can guarantee steps would have been missed without them; there are too many physiological and psychological factors that can alter your thought pattern in the heat of the moment.

There are typically a chain of events that occur before any accident, not just one event; and while some 'experienced' pilots "may not need them", I'm definitely pro checklist because that first step in the chain of events isn't going to be because I missed a checklist item.

 

[Mayfield]

...... I could give you one example (from personal experience where following the checklist would have killed all 6 on board (including myself). I was not the PIC on that occasion but took over just intime to save everyone. I had no need to look at a checklist because I knew in great detail how this aircraft worked and what needed to be done which was NOT on the checklist. The PIC was not able to recover and pretty much threw his hands up in the air and accepted we were all going to plunge into the channel. He was not an engineer and did not realise/understand what had to be done. I never flew with him again after that so I hope he learned from it and is still alive. There are several aerodynamicists, at least one physicist, several engineers, at least one SETP member, several instructors, a couple of airline pilots, and a bunch of high time aviators on this forum. Could you please fill us in on your actions that day when you saved all on board from plunging into the cold waters of the channel with your intimate understanding of your aircraft.

We have all gone a little off track here. The subject came up because it was suggested that one of the best Gyroplane Pilots you could ever meet broke his back and is now in great difficulty because someone re-engaged the control lock after removing it in the normal preflight process. People jumped in to suggest a checklist should have been used. He has more than 50 years Building, Flying, Instructing, Examining and doing Air Displays all over the world. I found it a little insulting for anyone to suggest he may not have used a checklist (sure no one actually used that phrase, but the topic came up and it went on from there. I have two questions. Did the pilot with 50 years experience use a checklist prior to this takeoff? If this pilot of 50 years' experience had accomplished a checklist that included "control lock disengaged" or "controls free and correct" would he have a broken back today?

Next I am being criticised for pointing out that the really excellent Gyro pilots obviously do not need a checklist. It goes without saying that teaching a student you would obviously encourage the practice but when flying solo in a machine where you know every single nut and bolt and mechanism because you assembled them all and manufactured some of them and tested them all and fine tuned them to perfection, it is ludicrous to say such a person must use his checklist each time he flies. Balderdash! Every pilot, of every aircraft, on every flight should at least accomplish "Bold Face" checklist items. For those that have not heard the term, "Bold Face" items must be committed to memory and verified using the written checklist when time permits. Your view that simple aircraft, or high time pilots or builders, are somehow not expected to use a checklist is inane. Aviation history is replete with stories of pilots being foolish/careless for years, and getting away with it, until they don't. Being human, I don't always abide by the precepts above. There is no way that any checklist can prevent all accidents. When we abandon the concept of checks that a checklist engenders because we are very experienced or because we know every nut and bolt in the aircraft, we give up an edge that can be life saving. I have heard a saying "a thousand atta boys is wiped out by one oh shit!"

As I said, there is little point pursuing this further, we shall just have to agree to disagree. Charlie, or James, or whatever your hidden name is, No, we don't. We just have to agree that you are wrong in your position about checklist usage.

 

[Sv.grainne]

Checklists were drummed into to me from my first flight. Continued thru train and check ride.

I use my preflight checklist as my postflight list.

I do not have a checklist for approach and landing. Quick look at instruments, land.

 

[PJB]

I see things are going well in this thread.. Happy New Year.

As a Brit and in an attempt at helping a countryman out and knowing the people he is talking about here is a view.

First of all I'm sure there is / was no attempt to make things us verse them in the US comment - its just a way of expression to give indication where the expertise is so that someone reading this is country XYZ doesn't get misled when the poster is making remarks / has expertise in country ABC. That is actually useful because you could get snagged with some things otherwise.

As for the accident the full report is here:- https://assets.publishing.service.g...7f72337b6da3/RAF_2000_GTX-SE_G-BXDE_03-19.pdf

The reasons for the accident are within the report.

On the single seat ambitions here is a view. First of all learn to fly a gyroplane in its 2 seat configuration first - you'll find it "easier" in the sense that when you make early mistakes there is someone onboard that you can say "you have control" and because two seat instructors are by far more numerous. I would say that in the UK practically speaking you will find almost nobody who will train you on your own single seater - and I say practically because perhaps someone may take it on, somewhere in the British Isles but it will involve huge faff and in the main the only guys I can think doing any single seat training in the UK are very old and so if this process takes a long time it may have a natural time out. The final element to this is when you read any material it will all mean a great deal more.

Good luck.

 

[DAN LECUYER]

I previously owned two Bensons B8 B8M. Be very careful. Call me if you would like. Dan 518-321-5631.

 

[Charlie007]

wow. Was not expecting so much flack. I appreciate there are some great aviators on here. There are also a few 'Hey look at me ..... I always do the right thing and ..... ha look at you and others who dont!' Sorry but lets be realistic.

I will try to get through your messages and give replies I have not been on here lately.

OK Mayfield, your points:

First: There are several aerodynamicists, at least one physicist, several engineers, at least one SETP member, several instructors, a couple of airline pilots, and a bunch of high time aviators on this forum. Could you please fill us in on your actions that day when you saved all on board from plunging into the cold waters of the channel with

I imagine you are speaking mainly for yourself when you say 'please fill us in....' and are probably looking for an opportunity to pick holes in my actions as seems to be your main interest on here. However, for your amusement this is what happened: I was a passenger on that plane (a saratoga) but knew the plane very well as I always study the intricut detail of any machine I fly. I am not a certified engineer. Just a Commercial Pilot of 20 years (No doubt you have many more) who has worked on many planes and often fixed things properly after Certified Engineers have bodged them - go on .... report me. The pilot was gettign flustered because he had missed his turning point on the GPS and seemed unsure how to fix the problem. I did not know how but in those days we had big bags of papers and books necessary for every flight. I grabbed the manual for the GPS and started setting it to go to the next checkpoint. GPSs then were not as sophisticated as they are now. It was almost like missing your turning in a car and getting 'please make a U turn'. While I was doing that for him the engine just stopped dead and we pointed downwards. I prefer to cross the Channel at around 7000 but we were only just over 3000 so I knew he (we) would have to act fast. He had the checklist on his lap and did flip it over to emergency and started mumbling incoherantly in between 'Oh my God, Oh my God.....' I literally threw myself accross him and pinned him to his seat while hitting the electric fuel pump. With the other hand I changed from no 1 tank which I saw was empty to no 4 which was full. If we had done as the checklist recommended then (although we would not have had time to read it before impacting the water) we would have had no chance of starting the engine. Instead I reached under the seat and pulled up the fule bleed and held it for about 5 to 7 seconds and hit the starter for a hot start. I got it going and pulled us out of it. Now that, ladies and gentlemen was a pilot who should always read checklists as he has no clue what is actually going on with an aeroplane engine, fuel system, electrical system. The then owner of the plane was a flight instructor who taught him and somehow get him through his test and gave him the high power rating etc merely to sell him a share in the AC. There are a few people reading this who will know who it was. I probably should have reported it to the CAA but as all was well in the end I strongly advised him to take extra training and I reported the incident to his instructor.

OK no doubt you will find so many things wrong with what I did but I saved 4 lives ............ without a checklist !

 

[Charlie007]

OK your next criticism relates to one of the best gyro pilots in this country but I shall answer as you are obviously of a much higher ranking:

I have two questions. Did the pilot with 50 years experience use a checklist prior to this takeoff? If this pilot of 50 years' experience had accomplished a checklist that included "control lock disengaged" or "controls free and correct" would he have a broken back today?

OK those comments indicate you have jumped into the conversation quite late in the day and ignored things that have already been said. Dont worry, I forgive you. Perhaps you didnt use your checklist (point 7.3a states 'has the question already been addressed? If so stop blabbering on about it' This point was already addressed. The control lock was already disengaged but the pilot for some reason but it back in. That is all we know and it is pointless and perhaps a little sinicle to ask such dumb questions when we really do not know the full details. I have also said I will get to the bottom of it and I will. That is what I do. I am methodical and if I look into an accident I will find out exactly what happened and why. Depending on the answers I may report the full story back on here. For now ....... leave it!

 

[Mayfield]

wow. Was not expecting so much flack. I appreciate there are some great aviators on here. There are also a few 'Hey look at me ..... I always do the right thing and ..... ha look at you and others who dont!' Sorry but lets be realistic.

I will try to get through your messages and give replies I have not been on here lately.

OK Mayfield, your points:

First: There are several aerodynamicists, at least one physicist, several engineers, at least one SETP member, several instructors, a couple of airline pilots, and a bunch of high time aviators on this forum. Could you please fill us in on your actions that day when you saved all on board from plunging into the cold waters of the channel with

I imagine you are speaking mainly for yourself when you say 'please fill us in....' and are probably looking for an opportunity to pick holes in my actions as seems to be your main interest on here. However, for your amusement this is what happened: I was a passenger on that plane (a saratoga) but knew the plane very well as I always study the intricut detail of any machine I fly. I am not a certified engineer. Just a Commercial Pilot of 20 years (No doubt you have many more) who has worked on many planes and often fixed things properly after Certified Engineers have bodged them - go on .... report me. The pilot was gettign flustered because he had missed his turning point on the GPS and seemed unsure how to fix the problem. I did not know how but in those days we had big bags of papers and books necessary for every flight. I grabbed the manual for the GPS and started setting it to go to the next checkpoint. GPSs then were not as sophisticated as they are now. It was almost like missing your turning in a car and getting 'please make a U turn'. While I was doing that for him the engine just stopped dead and we pointed downwards. I prefer to cross the Channel at around 7000 but we were only just over 3000 so I knew he (we) would have to act fast. He had the checklist on his lap and did flip it over to emergency and started mumbling incoherantly in between 'Oh my God, Oh my God.....' I literally threw myself accross him and pinned him to his seat while hitting the electric fuel pump. With the other hand I changed from no 1 tank which I saw was empty to no 4 which was full. If we had done as the checklist recommended then (although we would not have had time to read it before impacting the water) we would have had no chance of starting the engine. Instead I reached under the seat and pulled up the fule bleed and held it for about 5 to 7 seconds and hit the starter for a hot start. I got it going and pulled us out of it. Now that, ladies and gentlemen was a pilot who should always read checklists as he has no clue what is actually going on with an aeroplane engine, fuel system, electrical system. The then owner of the plane was a flight instructor who taught him and somehow get him through his test and gave him the high power rating etc merely to sell him a share in the AC. There are a few people reading this who will know who it was. I probably should have reported it to the CAA but as all was well in the end I strongly advised him to take extra training and I reported the incident to his instructor.

OK no doubt you will find so many things wrong with what I did but I saved 4 lives ............ without a checklist !

I enjoy reading about heroism as told by the hero.

 

[Mayfield]

OK your next criticism relates to one of the best gyro pilots in this country but I shall answer as you are obviously of a much higher ranking:

I have two questions. Did the pilot with 50 years experience use a checklist prior to this takeoff? If this pilot of 50 years' experience had accomplished a checklist that included "control lock disengaged" or "controls free and correct" would he have a broken back today?

OK those comments indicate you have jumped into the conversation quite late in the day and ignored things that have already been said. Dont worry, I forgive you. Perhaps you didnt use your checklist (point 7.3a states 'has the question already been addressed? If so stop blabbering on about it' This point was already addressed. The control lock was already disengaged but the pilot for some reason but it back in. That is all we know and it is pointless and perhaps a little sinicle to ask such dumb questions when we really do not know the full details. I have also said I will get to the bottom of it and I will. That is what I do. I am methodical and if I look into an accident I will find out exactly what happened and why. Depending on the answers I may report the full story back on here. For now ....... leave it!

Uh-huh. Roger.

 

[Charlie007]

OK your next point seems to be something you feel very strongly about and although your manour does not really warrant a reply I shall give one for everyone's entertainment:

Balderdash! Every pilot, of every aircraft, on every flight should at least accomplish "Bold Face" checklist items. For those that have not heard the term, "Bold Face" items must be committed to memory and verified using the written checklist when time permits. Your view that simple aircraft, or high time pilots or builders, are somehow not expected to use a checklist is inane. Aviation history is replete with stories of pilots being foolish/careless for years, and getting away with it, until they don't. Being human, I don't always abide by the precepts above. There is no way that any checklist can prevent all accidents. When we abandon the concept of checks that a checklist engenders because we are very experienced or because we know every nut and bolt in the aircraft, we give up an edge that can be life saving. I have heard a saying "a thousand atta boys is wiped out by one oh shit!"

Guys, guys guys ..... we are talking about Gyroplanes .... not nuclear aircraft. Mayfield (or whatever your real name is) I am sure you have some basic knowledge of aeronautics. The Gyroplane has a fan at the back to make it go forward and a rotor on top to make it go upwards (given appropriate wind flow). Now I am sure you always use your check list like a good boy but why dont you take a look at some of the top trainers videos where they specifically say 'you should not be using a checklist' both the UK and USA manufacturers and rotorcraft organisations say the same thing.
Of course if you are training someone who's mum just gave him some money to go and play and he has always wanted to go up and have a few lessons, you would be crazy not to give him a checklist but anyone who understands what a gyroplane is and how it works (not rocket science) should not be flying one if they genuinely need to sit down and go through a check list. Dont shoot the messenger, this is the view of most of the main gyroplane trainers in the States and many in the UK. Sure if you are flying a passenger plane it would be criminal not to use one but I tend to agree with those who say it really should not be necessary for a gyro and if you really can forget the most basic things then you are not ready to fly one yet. That seems to be the view of about 90% of trainers and I agree.

 

[Mayfield]

OK your next point seems to be something you feel very strongly about and although your manour does not really warrant a reply I shall give one for everyone's entertainment:

Balderdash! Every pilot, of every aircraft, on every flight should at least accomplish "Bold Face" checklist items. For those that have not heard the term, "Bold Face" items must be committed to memory and verified using the written checklist when time permits. Your view that simple aircraft, or high time pilots or builders, are somehow not expected to use a checklist is inane. Aviation history is replete with stories of pilots being foolish/careless for years, and getting away with it, until they don't. Being human, I don't always abide by the precepts above. There is no way that any checklist can prevent all accidents. When we abandon the concept of checks that a checklist engenders because we are very experienced or because we know every nut and bolt in the aircraft, we give up an edge that can be life saving. I have heard a saying "a thousand atta boys is wiped out by one oh shit!"

Guys, guys guys ..... we are talking about Gyroplanes .... not nuclear aircraft. Mayfield (or whatever your real name is) I am sure you have some basic knowledge of aeronautics. The Gyroplane has a fan at the back to make it go forward and a rotor on top to make it go upwards (given appropriate wind flow). Now I am sure you always use your check list like a good boy but why dont you take a look at some of the top trainers videos where they specifically say 'you should not be using a checklist' both the UK and USA manufacturers and rotorcraft organisations say the same thing.
Of course if you are training someone who's mum just gave him some money to go and play and he has always wanted to go up and have a few lessons, you would be crazy not to give him a checklist but anyone who understands what a gyroplane is and how it works (not rocket science) should not be flying one if they genuinely need to sit down and go through a check list. Dont shoot the messenger, this is the view of most of the main gyroplane trainers in the States and many in the UK. Sure if you are flying a passenger plane it would be criminal not to use one but I tend to agree with those who say it really should not be necessary for a gyro and if you really can forget the most basic things then you are not ready to fly one yet. That seems to be the view of about 90% of trainers and I agree.

Astounding. Just astounding.

 

[Charlie007]

Your final comment I think says a lot more about you than it does about me but ... what theheck I shall answer:

Charlie, or James, or whatever your hidden name is, No, we don't. We just have to agree that you are wrong in your position about checklist usage.

Well Mayfield (or Maynot (depending whether its on your checklist)) we know exactly what sort of person you are now dont we? No matter what anyone says you feel you should get the last word and it has to be 'I am write and you are wrong' OK ..... if you say so. I think I have actually reconsidered and I would now say (I think I already did) for you, checklists are a necesity. And I would definitly say for anyone you teach it is necessary. For everyone else I think it is 'horses for courses' and if they fully understand these very simple machines and how and why they work and what causes accidents etc they I would say its up to them if they want to be distracted fumbling around with checklists at critical times when their attention should be on other things.

Anyway I am happy to meet you and go over the ins and outs of it. When is your next aerobatics display? We can compare notes ;-)

 

[Charlie007]

Such nonsense!

Cierva was a Spaniard (not Brit, not German, not French, not Italian).

Kellett was an American.
Pitcairn was an American.
Bensen was an American.
Drago Jovanovich was a Serbian-American
Gilbert Devore was an American.
Then there's Brock, Parsons, DeGraw, and a host of others, working from the 1930s to the present. Current European high volume construction of dressed-up Bensen derivatives hardly counts as "invention".

I imagine that Vance cited U.S. practice only because he can authoritatively talk about FAA rules as it is within his expertise. He would not ordinarily presume to talk about regions where the practices are not familiar to him. You seem uninhibited in that regard.

That is great information Waspair. I didnt know Spain was outside Europe but ..... hey ho. Anyway we all know the main engineers were (and still are English, German and Italian. Americans tend to copy what we have already made. Dont you think?

 

[Mayfield]

Your final comment I think says a lot more about you than it does about me but ... what theheck I shall answer:

Charlie, or James, or whatever your hidden name is, No, we don't. We just have to agree that you are wrong in your position about checklist usage.

Well Mayfield (or Maynot (depending whether its on your checklist)) we know exactly what sort of person you are now dont we? No matter what anyone says you feel you should get the last word and it has to be 'I am write and you are wrong' OK ..... if you say so. I think I have actually reconsidered and I would now say (I think I already did) for you, checklists are a necesity. And I would definitly say for anyone you teach it is necessary. For everyone else I think it is 'horses for courses' and if they fully understand these very simple machines and how and why they work and what causes accidents etc they I would say its up to them if they want to be distracted fumbling around with checklists at critical times when their attention should be on other things.

Anyway I am happy to meet you and go over the ins and outs of it. When is your next aerobatics display? We can compare notes ;-)

You are simply wrong in most of what you postulate Mr. Bond. Hopefully your students, if you teach, find safer role models.

 

[Charlie007]

I fail to see what your first paragraph has to do with check lists.

I often mention the FAA or the USA when writing of rules or standards because I don't know what the rules or standards are in other countries or under other governing bodies.

It is a fact that many aviation accidents are directly attributable to a lack of check list use.

It is a fact that airlines require their pilots to use of check lists.

It is a fact that military pilots in the USA are required to use check lists and memorize the emergency check lists.

It is a fact that a special emphasis area of the FAA practical test for Rotorcraft-Gyroplane and Sport Pilot Gyroplane is the use of check lists.

I feel it is a dangerous notion that good pilots don’t need check lists.

You sir are not being criticized; the notions that check lists are not important or that experienced pilots don’t need checklists are being refuted.

Well vance I have seen quite convincing arguments the opposite way. What should we include on a checklist:
make sure the engine is running.... do the mag checks .... pre rotate stick back at appropriate time gradually increase power full power when it feels right or when the rotor reaches xxx rpm .... wait we forgot check runway or look to see if anyone is on final. Hand on did you check for lose bits n bobs first? stay in ground effect until .... oh darn did I turn the fuel pump on? OK I se what you mean. I definitely need a checklist. Should 'did I close the hangar door be before free and clear movement of whilst on the take off role? Damn I am not too good at this. I will definitely use a check list - thanks

 

[Sv.grainne]

I was trained to use a checklist, simple, straight-forward, look for the obvious. I also use it as a post flight list to look everything over back at the hangar.

Bobby

 

[Charlie007]

Such nonsense!

Cierva was a Spaniard (not Brit, not German, not French, not Italian).

Kellett was an American.
Pitcairn was an American.
Bensen was an American.
Drago Jovanovich was a Serbian-American
Gilbert Devore was an American.
Then there's Brock, Parsons, DeGraw, and a host of others, working from the 1930s to the present. Current European high volume construction of dressed-up Bensen derivatives hardly counts as "invention".

I imagine that Vance cited U.S. practice only because he can authoritatively talk about FAA rules as it is within his expertise. He would not ordinarily presume to talk about regions where the practices are not familiar to him. You seem uninhibited in that regard.

Sure but I am afraid it is bordering on BS. Do you watch any of the training videos? NONE of the US instructors use them! So is this just everyone here saying 'Hey ... look at meeee I do everything by the book ... dont you?'