Another Chinese Coaxial helicopter

500e

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2008
Messages
469
Location
UK
Aircraft
500c\d\e 300C & CBi
Total Flight Time
a lot more now
The Rotax must be working hard no wonder the plethora of coolers
 

johnrk

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
176
Location
Wentzville
Aircraft
FW guy trying like ? to get into rotorcraft!
Total Flight Time
300+ (ASEL)
I remember the Nolan brothers coaxial story received a warm welcome at Oshkosh once they went public, and then...nothing! It seems like yesterday, but clearly I am getting old because this video now looks very dated. Does anyone know what happened to this project? Helo's that cannot autorotate are doomed to failure it seems, nobody takes them seriously, but I do remember a BRS chute was later incorporated into this design!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B21Xk6tNcBw


And according to this video they won an award at the 32nd Annual PRA Convention! - long before I was a member!
https://youtu.be/0QHfBucsL0Q
 

HobbyCAD

Homebuilt Heli Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
1,564
Location
Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Someone bought someones something ......

The obvious age of some components, the workmanship of the dynamic parts, vs the workmanship of the radiators....... it just does not seem to be all of the same era.

Just thinking, I've been through this mill with the Chinese. They bought the manufacturing rights off us, then went and bought a second-hand aircraft, the next thing it appears at a large presentation, all wrapped up in a large red ribbon, with banners announcing it as the first aircraft to come off their non-existent production line. No one even noticed that they did not even remove the original Australian rego markings of the tail. Rows of party officials on the stage, and sub-licenses being sold right there and then for cash. Everyone is in on the scam, all get barrels full of government grant money.....
 

animal

Platinum Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
5,933
Location
Deleon Springs Florida.
Aircraft
Hillman Hornet N8063D
I remember the Nolan brothers coaxial story received a warm welcome at Oshkosh once they went public, and then...nothing! It seems like yesterday, but clearly I am getting old because this video now looks very dated. Does anyone know what happened to this project? Helo's that cannot autorotate are doomed to failure it seems, nobody takes them seriously, but I do remember a BRS chute was later incorporated into this design!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B21Xk6tNcBw


And according to this video they won an award at the 32nd Annual PRA Convention! - long before I was a member!
https://youtu.be/0QHfBucsL0Q
I have some pics of it from when it was at Anthony's place. not sure what he ended up doing with it. I just sent him an E-mail with the Video link.
 

Attachments

bones

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
1,278
Location
Chtrs Twrs Australia
Aircraft
a/c
Total Flight Time
cant remember, didnt have log books before, but since over 3000
Helo's that cannot autorotate are doomed to failure it seems, nobody takes them seriously]
Ok I have what is obviously a stupid question, but , why can these not auto?
Nd secondly how does one do a pedal turn?
 

bones

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
1,278
Location
Chtrs Twrs Australia
Aircraft
a/c
Total Flight Time
cant remember, didnt have log books before, but since over 3000
The Rotax must be working hard no wonder the plethora of coolers
I can't see why it would be, the ch7 with the 912uls work fine nd they have the power gobbling TR also.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
4,506
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
Ok I have what is obviously a stupid question, but , why can these not auto?
The Nolan has no collective control. The rotors stay in engine-driven flight pitch all the time, and that's way too much pitch for autorotative flight.
 

hillberg

Active Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
2,552
Location
Low Earth Orbit
the Nolan is fixed pitch = no autorotation

tail rotor helicopters are easier less expensive to build better yaw performance & speed.

yaw is reversed in most coaxel helicopters and use over sized tail fins for yaw (QH 50 has no issues)



Ch 7 even with the smaller two stroke rotax was a pleasure to fly
 

bones

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
1,278
Location
Chtrs Twrs Australia
Aircraft
a/c
Total Flight Time
cant remember, didnt have log books before, but since over 3000
The Nolan has no collective control. The rotors stay in engine-driven flight pitch all the time, and that's way too much pitch for autorotative flight.
Ok there you go, I didn't know that, so they are a set pitch, nd to go up rev the motor faster, go down idle the motor back?
 

wolves200

Newbie
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Malmö
I bet many of you are regular helicopter pilot; does anybody flown a Coaxial?
I mean if what the western is saying is true; how come in Russia still fly this things since 1947? heck, you can buy one for very little money with a payload of 1400Kg...

how does Coax deal with.

1.- YAW (I mean, I know changed the pitch of one set of blades to produce torque in each direction, but I meant, is it as important now that there is no TORQUE to deal with)

2.- DYNAMIC ROLLOVER. ( does it even exists??)

3.- PAYLOAD.

4.- Dissymmetry of lift.

5.- Gyroscopic momentum.

6.- Hovering. ( is it as complicated as the TR helo?)

7.- Autorotation.

8. -Flying backward.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
4,506
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
Ok there you go, I didn't know that, so they are a set pitch, nd to go up rev the motor faster, go down idle the motor back?
Yup. Conventional helicopters hold constant rotor rpm and vary the collective pitch with power changes; this thing holds constant collective pitch so you must vary the rpm. There are many very good reasons that nobody else has used that system over the last 70 years of helicopter development.
 

hillberg

Active Member
Joined
May 24, 2010
Messages
2,552
Location
Low Earth Orbit
I bet many of you are regular helicopter pilot; does anybody flown a Coaxial?
I mean if what the western is saying is true; how come in Russia still fly this things since 1947? heck, you can buy one for very little money with a payload of 1400Kg...

how does Coax deal with.

1.- YAW (I mean, I know changed the pitch of one set of blades to produce torque in each direction, but I meant, is it as important now that there is no TORQUE to deal with)

Answer, yaw reversal in Autorotation, more maintenance and rigging, More complex system.

2.- DYNAMIC ROLLOVER. ( does it even exists??)

Answer,: :eek:Yes like any other helicopter it WILL and does roll over ,China lost one not too long ago.

3.- PAYLOAD.

Answer: :der:not as much as a conventional helicopter (main gearbox issues) 1400 kg? for the installed horse power? get me a Super Huey

4.- Dissymmetry of lift.

Answer: rotor tip clearance limits blade flapping, and mast bending forces are more

5.- Gyroscopic momentum.
What? :twitch:

6.- Hovering. ( is it as complicated as the TR helo?)

Answer :weathervane effect and mixing rotor wash a wallowing whale

7.- Autorotation.

Answer :like any other but yaw reversal issues even with special linkages.

8. -Flying backward.

Answer :Any helicopter can fly backwards 133 lift work they do it all the time and with those bag tail fins on a Kamov PITA ! better with a tail rotor even the Russians don't use a coxael in heavy lift work:rant:

Short answer Not as good as a normal helicopter and more costly pieces
 
Last edited:

johnrk

Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
176
Location
Wentzville
Aircraft
FW guy trying like ? to get into rotorcraft!
Total Flight Time
300+ (ASEL)
Last edited:

wolves200

Newbie
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Malmö
If that what I keep on hearing about COAX, over complicated, high maintenance, expensive, not efficient, ---- how come Sikorsky is betting on it?

http://www.planecheck.com?ent=da&id=30759

250.000,00$ WOW...!!! Aussies are bit overheated, that company has been around quite a few years, yet they haven´t come up with a commercially viable helicopter, all those helos they have looks like surplus from the Navy...?

this guy here will be competing with Mosquito --- don´t know what his plans are just guessing, but certainly does not look over complicated nor expensive to me; also he is flying with a 503.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppOCks_xzk0

Regards
 

wolves200

Newbie
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
37
Location
Malmö
We are in 2018, not 1950, materials and technology is way ahead, both China and Russia enthusiasts are trying to produce a ultralight COAX, we can talk a lot about helicopters when it comes to commercial or military applications, however for recreational purposes or experimental, I find the coaxial far more interesting from the flying and mechanical stand point, I don´t want to offend any tail rotor folks who spend all their life flying tail rotors, I just want to learn more about COAX since I don´t speak Chinese or Russian, ho other helo is relevant to this conversation, there have been major development in: engines, materials, instruments ETC; ETC.- why I don´t see more COAX on the light and experimental category?

See working examples, here.... one chap in Russia is selling the Coaxial version of the Mosquito, quite a solution he found, instead of using a coaxial gear box, He installed a set of pulleys and belts to use one shaft and invert the rotation on the upper belt, using regular swash plate for the lower rotor and mini 500 looalike cyclic control on the upper rotor. Chinese company yuneec is developing an electric which in my opinion is far simpler than the gas engine in Germany is already selling one.


would love to see more people working on this types of Helicopters.



Regards
 
Top