Another Cavalon

Greg Vos

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wonder what caused this
 

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PeterFromLA

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wonder what caused this
Based on the immediately available information, it was lack of recent flying experience that might have led to rotor mismanagement.

If you examine the picture, you will see the rudder chopped off.
 

TyroGyro

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Video news report in the link.

New information being added, ownership, flightradar, etc.
 
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Greg Vos

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Seems the Cavalon’s suffer a lot with accidents? Again on its left side indicating to me the possibility of a retreating blade stall on take off ? In fact when I think of Cavalon I have two images in my mind…one of a beautiful almost BMW finished machine in a pristine hanger and the other of it on its left hand side in the bush….wonder why I think this
 

Greg Vos

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I got this from a mate..it goes against the report attached on Tyrogyro’s previous post? In there is says during landing ..
 

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Greg Vos

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Makes one ask why the hell did he not ask an instructor to just go for a check ride ….it would have been cheaper and this accident could have been avoided and he could have been killed…confidence in the gyro game is unbelievable…as one of my instructors said to me years ago when I was converting with only helicopter exp and I was cocky he said It kills just as quickly and those words ring in my head often to remind one not to be over confident
 

TyroGyro

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Conflicting reports are the norm to begin with.

But if the gyro-pilot's report is genuine, I'd go with that...
 

ultracruiser41

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Cavalons are very unforgiving with sloppy take off and landing techniques.
 

Abid

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Makes one ask why the hell did he not ask an instructor to just go for a check ride ….it would have been cheaper and this accident could have been avoided and he could have been killed…confidence in the gyro game is unbelievable…as one of my instructors said to me years ago when I was converting with only helicopter exp and I was cocky he said It kills just as quickly and those words ring in my head often to remind one not to be over confident


Yes over-confidence in gyro game is unbelievable indeed. I see it in perspective customers. On phone calls. Try to nicely say that perhaps time allocated in your mind for training isn’t going to be enough.
 

Greg Vos

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Conflicting reports are the norm to begin with.

But if the gyro-pilot's report is genuine, I'd go with that...
Time will tell …I think it’s great that you are documenting accidents of course if the pilot could tell us that would be great,,, sadly in many accidents the pilots ego outstrips the need to improve flight saftey
 

Greg Vos

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Cavalons are very unforgiving with sloppy take off and landing techniques.
I think all aircraft would be unforgiving with sloppy piloting technique…what is it so many Cavalons are on the left side….is it poor instruction? Is the well healed owner to busy to take instruction seriously ? Feeling he is above the instructor pay grade? I don’t know ? I don’t find them difficult to fly at all, all aircraft are different and one needs to pay attention when getting the type rating
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
The brief FAA ASIAS entry shows - "AIRCRAFT MADE A HARD LANDING FOLLOWED BY ROTOR STRIKE AND ROLLED ON ITS SIDE, EL MONTE, CA."
 

Greg Vos

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The brief FAA ASIAS entry shows - "AIRCRAFT MADE A HARD LANDING FOLLOWED BY ROTOR STRIKE AND ROLLED ON ITS SIDE, EL MONTE, CA."
Well this contradicts Henry Gyrolife ( a guy who is very popular on FB) …read his comments in one of my posts further back ..he clearly states the gyro was in the take off phase ..anyway glad pilot is ok.
When a pilot is taught the correct landing technique I wonder how do you have hard landing with the biggest most controllable parachute in your right hand.
You can bring it to a gentle stop ( (stop!) an inch above the ground with no forward roll ….. I’m of the opinion if a student pilot or converting pilot cannot do this he should have more training before getting his ticket ….
 

Steve_UK

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I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
Hi Greg - it's not inconcievable that the FAA ASIAS / NTSB report will be revised as they digest the pilots and any witness statements - Henry may be correct.
 

Kinetic

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Another @#$ giving the Cavalon and Gyros more negative publicity, and raising the price of insurance. The Cavalon is not a short take off aircraft, despite windy videos. You need to get plenty of airspeed at a low height before you take off. Love and fly it, or leave it. I fly a Cavalon 915 at least 2 to 3 times a week weather and wife permitting. VY = 60 knots, and 70 knots even better.

News said he landed. You can land during take off also. He just landed early....
 

Kinetic

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"what is it so many Cavalons are on the left side….is it poor instruction?" 1) Possible, being a fixed winger, he got confused having not flown for a year in a gyro and he reacted the opposite of what he need to do. 2) If he was taking off it looks like he drifted to the left or yawed to the left. 3) if at low speed putting him below the height/velocity curve, and in the (you ain't gonna get it up area) might not have been high enough to put nose down and pick up sufficient speed.
 

Vance

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Another @#$ giving the Cavalon and Gyros more negative publicity, and raising the price of insurance. The Cavalon is not a short take off aircraft, despite windy videos. You need to get plenty of airspeed at a low height before you take off. Love and fly it, or leave it. I fly a Cavalon 915 at least 2 to 3 times a week weather and wife permitting. VY = 60 knots, and 70 knots even better.

News said he landed. You can land during take off also. He just landed early....
"what is it so many Cavalons are on the left side….is it poor instruction?" 1) Possible, being a fixed winger, he got confused having not flown for a year in a gyro and he reacted the opposite of what he need to do. 2) If he was taking off it looks like he drifted to the left or yawed to the left. 3) if at low speed putting him below the height/velocity curve, and in the (you ain't gonna get it up area) might not have been high enough to put nose down and pick up sufficient speed.
Welcome to the Rotary Wing Forum Kinetic.

According to the POH for a 2013 914 powered Cavalon; best rate of climb is 50kts.

Rumor has it that this was a takeoff incident; he had not flown his gyroplane for a year and may have been trying an airplane style takeoff.

Rumor has it that he started the takeoff roll with the cyclic in the forward position and pulled back when he realized things were not going as planned.

I have seen him fly and he appears to me to be a competent gyroplane pilot.

With all the gyroplanes I have flown if I have too much indicated air speed for the rotor rpm the retreating blade will stall and the advancing blade will sail.

The damage to his rudder bears witness to a blade sailing incident.

If the blade sail is violent enough a Cavalon will roll left because that is the retreating blade side.

I have not talked to Chris so all this is just rumor and speculation.

I am grateful he was not injured.
 
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Kinetic

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1) As stated in my post Vy is 60 knots for a Cavalon 915. Vx is 50 knots. 70 knots even better in case the engine fails at low height you have plenty of reserve airspeed to help stay in control when you are within the height/velocity curve flying a Cavalon 915.
2) Anyone that hasn't flown a Cavalon in a year has no business jumping into it and taking off. At minimum any prudent pilot would have taken, at minimum, a check ride with a instructor. A Cavalon is one of the harder gyros to fly and can kill a lazy or deficient pilot.
3) If he was trying an airplane style takeoff he has no business being PIC of a gyroplane. A gyro is not a fixed wing airplane.
4) "Rumor has it that he started the takeoff roll with the cyclic in the forward position and pulled back when he realized things were not going as planned." That demonstrates his lack of knowledge (rusty, forgot, applied fixed wing reactions) on how to properly abort a gyro takeoff. A proper abort is 1) engine to idle and 2) stick fully forward before the rotor rpms go below the green line to protect the rotor blades.
5) "I have seen him fly and he appears to me to be a competent gyroplane pilot." His actions and behavior suggest he let his skills and knowledge degenerate.
6) "With all the gyroplanes I have flown if I have too much indicated air speed for the rotor rpm the retreating blade will stall and the advancing blade will sail." That is true if you exceed Vne, Vne for my Cavalon 915 is 105 KIAS. The information so far does not indicate a Vne blade stall. It indicates a rusty pilot, making the wrong decisions, and violating his height/velocity requirements.
7) "The damage to his rudder bears witness to a blade sailing incident." No. It indicates a "bad" blade flapping, likely from a low airspeed with his rotor blades not coned up. Pulling back on the stick was an incorrect abort procedure.
8) I am also grateful he is not injured, but he exercised bad judgment. It is important to call these accidents honesty and as we see them.
 
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