Analog or Digital Instrumentation?

Steven_Kozned

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Joined
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Location
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Hello Everyone!
I'm agonizing over the vast choices in instrumentation. What are your opinions on which are more practical, reliable and easier to read?
Cost is not an issue.

I've looked at the Stratomaster Ultra line and SkyDAT, but can't tell from the pictures how big they really are, or how readable. I gather they're light and accurate, but I'm leery of reliability. They look home made...

Then I've seen cool instruments from United Instruments, from altimeters
to airspeed indicators, with big faces that seem to be easy to see, however they weight up to 2 pounds for each indicator.

The Aeronca Champ and Citabrias that I train in don't have a VSI, so I guess I don't need one in my gyro either?
And what about a GPS? I'm lusting after the Garmin 296 or the Anywhere
Map, but if my cross countries are in a 300 mile radius, is it overkill?

Kind regards,
Steven Kozned
 
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Steven,

The electronic instrument sets look homemade because they're usually low-volume units made by small companies. Often, electronic equipment like this is better-built than the mass-produced stuff.

The biggest enemies of reliability for electronic instruments are temperature extremes, supply voltages outside their design limits, voltage spikes sent down the DC supply by the starter, and RF interference from radio transmitters. Some LCD panels can't take direct sunlight without damage, and most fail at very cold temperatures, but recover when they warm back up. If you're careful, they should last and last.

Some of the backlit LCD units look like they'd be a problem flying at night. The large illuminated area could degrade your night vision. (Palm computers drive me nuts in that regard.) If you plan to fly with polarized sunglasses, make sure you can read the LCD without having to lay your head to one side!

I want to check out the ones which can operate against a dark background with light pixels, like the Blue Mountain Avionics units. I love flying at night, and wouldn't want anything that would compromise that mode.

If you're serious, go to Oshkosh this summer. All the major manufacturers should be there. If a brand about which you're especially curious isn't there, try the showrooms (or airshow displays) of the bigger avionics shops. If there's a local EAA chapter near you, go to a meeting. You'll probably find guys who've seen and tried them all.
 
Instruments

Instruments

Steven_Kozned said:
I'm agonizing over the vast choices in instrumentation. What are your opinions on which are more practical, reliable and easier to read?
Steve,

I tend to prefer instruments with an analog display because I like to see what's going on at a quick glance. I started flying with analog instruments and seeing all those little red-tipped white needles feels "normal" to me. With an analog display, you don't have to spend time interpreting what you're seeing.

On the other hand, there's a lot to be said for digital displays, because not only can you cram a whole lot more information in a limited space, they can give you very precise information at that. Most usually warn you when something is exceeding a preset limit and flash it in your face... no excuse not to notice something went wrong.

It seems to me the best of both worlds is a digital driven instrument with an analog *and* digital output display. The analog display part could be real or graphic... needles, bar graphs, etc... anything that you can quickly glance at and know what's happening. Then if you need to, and have the time to, you can get more detailed information by reading the digital (alpha/numeric) output.

When I built my gyro I went with simple analog gauges because, at the time, I wasn't aware of any reasonably priced combo gauges (analog/digital) and the pure digital displays at the time (like the EIS) weren't what I wanted. Now there are some newer and interesting alternatives I'll seriously consider using when I rebuild my instrument pod someday.

I like the look of the "Smart Singles" from Stratomaster:

https://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html

I did install a VSI on my GyroBee, but of course a VSI is not a requirement by any means. I simply like to have it there as verification to what I'm sensing and to confirm what the altimeter is telling me. I also like to know what the climb/descent performance is.

Oh... and definitely try to keep the weight down. Every extra pound you take up with you will result in that much less performance. A pound here and a pound there add up pretty quick and pretty soon you have a *pig* of an aircraft.

Have fun,

John L.
 
I use sky data on mine and looks great at night. I would only wish they can have a dim for the light. Is too bright at night. as for the reading it in bright sun light is excelent. The service from Matt have been very good.

STratomaster is sold by the same guy but It looks more like a toy in my opinion.

Chuck P. I have a post in the forum with a pic of my panel. you can search for it
:)
 
Another instrumentation choice

Another instrumentation choice

Steve,

I'm not sure how sophisticated a set of equipment you are looking for, but I fly using an EIS digital display, the supersize one. I also bought the VSI equipment with it.

The nice thing about the EIS is it's a small unit, doesn't weigh a lot. The only other instrument I use is an airspeed indicator. All the critical parameter limits can be set, and will alarm when reached, so you don't have to keep constantly glancing at the gauges. It's flexible regarding adding additional equipment, and the people who answer the phone are super, even when you ask a dumb question.

My wife also flies our machine, and early on in her flying career, the fan belt broke. The alarm went off, indicating what was wrong, so she was able to contact me, and I told her to land immediately, and shut the engine down immediately. I really doubt with analog gauges if she would have recognized the problem in time to not damage the engine. So in our case, I feel the equipment paid for itself by saving us an engine repair.

The only problem with the EIS is at below freezing temps, the readout fades out, but since my gyro is open, this is not a big deal for me.

The unit is now four years old, and other than a wiring mistake I created, it has worked flawlessly for me. And when I did have a problem, the tech support guy was great, figured out my problem over the phone, and did not laugh at me.

Hope this info helps you make a wise choice.

Mark
 
Steve,

I've not had much problem with glare or vibration with my EIS, the only issue is when it's really cold out, the display tends to fade. I may be closer to the display than you will be with your SportCopter, though.

Being of the mid-elder generation, I do need to wear my glasses to see the display properly, though.

From the looks of the display you posted, you're considering something much larger than will fit in the standard Air Command panel.
 
Steve I use polirezed but can remember when I will check this weekend. I normally use the green helmet shield in my military helmet.

Responsive The only one I could complain is the rotor RPM that start picking up at 30 RPM after that is very sensitive. This is better than other rotor RPM out there that shows garbage and then start at 80 rpm to read correctly. The other instrumnest I dont have any complain. I am using the gtx2 that has a bigger screen than the gtx1 I know you have the link but here is it again https://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Skydat_GX1/skydat_gx1.html

Can it be seen from 3 feet? My head is at 4 feet. I can also see it from the back seat of my gyro. I will include some pics of the instrument working inside the hangar . so you can see some distance reading and also the back light when he sense darkness.

Chuck P
 

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check the distance from the helmet to the panel. also the back seat.

I hope I have been of help
Chuk P.
 

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looks normal I dont have to fine tune my eyes. If you eventually buy one tell Matt I preach his instrument to you. He might give you a discount. You never knows.

Now better yet come down for s sunny caribean vacation and fly with me you will see it by your self
ChuckP.
 
Two possibilities...

Two possibilities...

Hi,
It has always amazed me that in the 21st century, we're still equipping aircraft with guages designed in the mid-50's. Ergonomically they're a disaster - the number of times I have mistakenly read my altitude as 2500ft instead of 3500ft (or similar) just isn't funny. And no, I'm neither squint nor stupid. Analogue guages are simply hard to read.

Not to mention the vacuum-driven variety! Truly museum-grade avionics...

I'm attaching two pictures: the first one is of a very affordable EIS (check it out at Van's Aircraft site (cost: $2100) and the second is a really neat engine monitoring system. Again at Van's HERE

Regards,
Duncan
 

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I really like both of my Taskem digital altimeters, no reading clock hands & moves in 10' increments. After I ordered the instruments for my new machine I found out that Taskem makes a nice EIS. 1 6" round instrument with VSI & airspeed. In hindsight, I would have bought one for sure! Larry B's Raf has an EIS in it & I love the warnings adjust features.
 
Steve
I have seen and evaluate almost every instrument gadge out there. Even the Digy fly that cost 6,000. was what I went to buy in sun and fun 3 years ago. Like you money was not an issue. For me was space , weight and features. I even thought of mounting a garmin 430. This are my suggestion
1: how many wires I have to conect to my dash?
2: how many features does it has included. Flight inst, eng instr warning fetaures. Does it similate analog instruments.
3: how much does it weight
4:Can it be read in direct sun light ?
5: does it fit in my panel?
6: Does it come with all the senders?
7: Then how much is going to cost.

Remeber we sacn with periferel view and stopping to read takes time and we only have 11 seconds to look at the dash on our continual scan of the horizon
CHuck
 
Bought a Smart Single

Bought a Smart Single

I'd been looking at changing out my Altimeter and Airspeed indicator. After reading this thread I decided to try out the smart single ASX-1 combo unit that John Landry mentioned. Took it flying for the first time yesterday and it is great. The Display is not very big, but I have No Problem seeing it and the altimeter and airspeed both seem to work perfect.
 

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Thanks Todd,
I've been looking at the singles for some time, but I've a feeling I won't see them. Those numbers are like quarter of an inch high, right? And are they constantly moving, forcing you to focus for a time to average the reading?
I guess I'd have to actually see one for myself. There's a version with an altitude encoder for my transponder that's very interesting...at this time I'm leaning towards the Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS One Lite...for several reasons...but I'm not making a final decision until I actually see something.
Regards,
 

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Steven,

The EFIS Lite from Blue Mountain is way less expensive than the full-size, something like $3500 if I recall. It has a full IFR instrument package, even can be adapted to Blue Mountain's autopilot servos. The big thing it gives up is engine instruments. It has none, so you'd have to get a separate unit.

I believe the GPS receiver is also an extra-cost option on the Lite. I believe this will be one of those items where waiting until the last minute will be advantageous...this kind of technology will get cheaper and better every few weeks.
 
Oh, God. You wussies are making me sick with your sissy mini-TV screens and goofy lights. Don't you know that real men use good old-fashioned gauges and plenty of them? They didn't have that crap in "The Big War." Take your panel off with the miles of wiring behind it and listen to all the "ooohs" and "aaahs." The local "wannabees" and airport rats will think you must have at least a doctorate in electrical engineering to be able to sort that drunken bird's nest out. If you don't have at least 186 cable zip-ties behind your panel holding all that crap up off your feet, you ain't diddly. Pull off your panel and show everyone the neat 3-wire hook-up for your TV screen and they'll all yawn and go, "So what?........booooooooring."

Dammit! I have a plethora of gauges, including an ROC.......not one, but 2 voltmeters......not one, but 2 tachometers. Quit feminizing our 2-ball sport with that sissy stuff and load up your panel with them gauges. Everyone will think they can fly a gyro when the panel looks as simple as the 9 inch TV in their kid's room. Tell them what all the 24 gauges are for and they'll stagger and stumble off in bewilderment, muttering, "Wow! How can that goofy old bastard keep track of all that stuff? He must be good!"

Take some "airport fence-drooler" for a ride, and just as you're climbing out, snatch the screwdriver out of your leather jacket pocket, yell out....."Sumbitch!" in a loud voice and start whacking one of the gauges with the handle of the screwdriver. That poor guy, who is squeezing his sphincter as hard as he can to keep from peeing on himself, will feel like he's somewhere in the middle of the ocean at night in a thunderstorm, flying along with Charles Lindbergh himself. He'll never forget the ride. I can see you guys going..."Oooooh my. One of my light-emitting diodes is dimming a little on my EFIS." Sheeeeeeet!

GAUGE-CRAZY AND PROUD OF IT!
 
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Well, I sure look at the rotor tach at least since a little flapping incident awhile ago. :(
 
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