Aluminum Ordered for Hornet Build

Brian Jackson

Platinum Member
Starting to look like a gyro! The hammer part is a little worrisome though. Do you have a reamer? Might be a better method of providing clearance for slightly mismatched holes. A couple of transfer punches (3/16" and 1/4") should help with maintaining precise hole alignment.

You mentioned notching the tailboom. I assume you mean the radiused cut-out for the cyclic controls? You might want to hold off on making that cut until you know it's required for the control system you will be using.

In an earlier photo of the cluster plates, I saw what appear to be castle nuts. Are you using the AN hardware during construction? I ask because nylock nuts aren't designed to be removed and reinstalled repeatedly. But my eyes could be deceiving me.
 
Brian:

I use the term hammer jokingly. The misalignment was just enough to be tight and only a light tap was needed to push through, no real "hulk smash" force was needed. A reamer is the next wish list item. Actually a couple of each size.

No castle nuts were harmed in the building of this gyro. And Nylock nuts ARE one time use. Fortunately I over bought. I could have gone to the hardware store for some 10-32's for test fitting, but did not think of it until after the nylock was in place. On a few of the nuts, I went all the day tight, but the rest I did not tighten them all down...just threaded until the nylon was starting to be engaged and quit. I only needed a couple to hold tight, the rest were just to keep the bolt from slipping out.

On the notch, clearance for the controls....I will be using a pump stick style like Jazzen John has on his new build. So, you may be right, I will hold off on that.

Transfer punch. I looked that one up. That is one nice idea and will help. So, depending on the straightness of the walls of the hole drilled, the transfer punch allows one to actual spot center for the next hole across the "gap." Now you tell me.....LOL. Given that, would it be a good idea to fashion a 1/2" plate that has been properly drilled to align over a thin wall object to more exactly align the transfer punch through the other side? Just thinking ahead.

Curtis S.
 
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Brian Jackson

Platinum Member
Hi Curtis.

Good to hear about the progress. Regarding transfer punching, it's simply an accurate way of center-punching through an existing hole onto the part to be drilled. I would NOT use it to punch over a distance, such as to the other side of a tube. As you hinted at, keeping it exactly perpendicular could be problematic and would serve no purpose. A typical use scenario might be the tailwheel plates for example. Once your holes are drilled through the tailboom tube, you can locate and clamp one of the undrilled plates to the tube and transfer punch the plate through the holes accessible from the other side of the tube. This removes measurement errors from the equation.

One thing to watch out for is the tip depth of the punch itself. A 1/4" dia. punch has approx. 1/8" tip depth, which happens to be the thickness of most of the angle and plate stock on a GB. So the tip could be bottoming out on the part to punch before the shank is fully seated inside the thru-hole. This could potentially cause an off-center punch, especially if your hole de-burring is significantly chamferred. Because of this, I will often place a business card or some thin spacer between the 2 parts to increase the distance just enough to ensure the punch shank is engaged and nested within the adjacent thru-hole.

Working this way can become a logic puzzle sometimes, especially when there are 4 walls to pass through. So plan on assembling and disassembling parts dozens of times in the process.
 
Brian:

Very well then. Again, thank you for sharing your expertise. Valuable lessons and I do NOT want to mess up any more than I have to.

Curtis Scholl
 
Hi Folks:

At Brian's suggestion, I ordered 3 straight reamers. 3/16", 1/4" and a 5/16" just for good measure. And some Dykem blue. I was finding it hard to mark then see what I had marked to use the center punch. This weekend will be filled, so no work on the gyro except research to find where to get the stainless steel for the landing gear mounts.. I was thinking of using 1/8" channel in aluminum but that was nixed when I read about extrusions being welded at the corner...

So I will try bending ss plate. Either that or I order the mounts from LEAF if they still make them.

Suggestions?

Curtis Scholl
 

FRANK'S

Super Supporter
My comment is off topic sorry.

your horse shoe on your shed door is upside down your luck will all fall out :p
 
Hi Folks:

I did not think that one should have to use a square on an articulated power miter saw. You know, a multi axis fixture with all the degree marked dials that are supposed to be lined up? I was cutting some tubing and used the guide pointer to set the blade vertically perpendicular to the base...and the cut was just a bit off. I wondered if the blade were flexing because it was so near the end of the tube, but, when I looked at it with the cut piece right beside it....the gap was even all down the cut.

So, I got the trusty square out and set it against the blade. Lo and behold, the dial is off by three marks from vertical. I was using the end of the tubing as a datum line and the drilled parts are off by the distance the angle of the cut made. Wasted tubing for the part being made, but can be used on a smaller part.

Note to self: Do NOT trust the manufacturer put the dials on correctly.....use check tools to be sure. Since this will be used to make storm window frames as well, is there anyone out there that knows of a good supplier of a metal 45 degree check tool? The Square will not cut it....

God Bless

Curtis Scholl
 

JohnyWalter

Newbie
curtisscholl;n1134968 said:
Hi Folks:

I did not think that one should have to use a square on an articulated power miter saw.
What kind of miter saw did you use?Brand and model.I have new order,and we gonna buy new saw.If that good,t's good to know where to start!
And thanks for useful notes in description.Was good to know!
 
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Brian Jackson

Platinum Member
In my experience it's rare to find a consumer-grade machine that is precisely indexed. Though I do not own nor have much experience with cross-cut saws, of the tools I do own most came with adhesive degree mark stickers and other varieties of cheese. I'll generally peel those right off, opting to use a square and angle finder. I may leave them on for reference only if the needle pointer allows for adjustment.

From your description it sounds like you drilled the tube from both sides using unequal distances from the end due to the slight angle cut, making the holes off-center from those in the opposing tube wall. Are they pilot holes or finished diameters? I ask because if they are pilots then you can still thru-drill square with the tube if the offset is less than 1 hole radius.
 
Brian

The drill holes were pilots...I will definitely check the distances and attempt to recover that piece. Thanks for the tip.

Curtis Scholl
 
Hi folks..

"As the Gyrobee Rotor Turns" Continued..

1. The horseshoe on the lean-to has been turned open end up. Hopefully there is still some luck left in it.
2. The fuel tank support parts have been cut trimmed and test fit. Next step is to mount it.

The engine mount is next!!!

Curtis Scholl
 

Brian Jackson

Platinum Member
curtisscholl;n1137690 said:
Hi folks..

"As the Gyrobee Rotor Turns" Continued..

1. The horseshoe on the lean-to has been turned open end up. Hopefully there is still some luck left in it.
2. The fuel tank support parts have been cut trimmed and test fit. Next step is to mount it.

The engine mount is next!!!

Curtis Scholl
Post some progress photos when you get a chance. Would like to see how things are coming together.
 
Well folks, pics are attached.

The horseshoe is open at the to now..and the gas tank mount is installed with a temporary bolt setup. The engine mount horizontal pieces are cut, the diagonals are next and will be mounted this weekend. Update...gotta make the pics smaller!!

Curtis
 

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To the machinists in the group:

A Question of how much larger a hole can be for a particular size...
If a hole for a bolt needs to be moved back a bit, what is the largest acceptable distance for that cut?
An AN3 bolt is one sixteenth off horizontally between the two parts....the seat risers vs the engine mount on the GyroBee.
It is pushing the seat risers forward. And I releived the engine mount to match the curve of the inner corner. When I file off the end, the mount hole will need to be elongated.

My thinking goes to shaving the end of the engine mount where it meets the risers, and if necessary, clamp and drill for an AN4 bolt worst case.

Thanks for any information.

Curtis Scholl
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
I have found round holes in to be very important in an aluminum structure Curtis.

I drill them undersize and ream them to size so they are round.

Most drills don't make round holes.

Using oversize or misshapen holes relies on the clamping force of the joint which often doesn’t work well with aluminum depending on the design of the joint.

I am not a machinist.
 
Vance:

Very well....machinist or no, you confirmed my suspicion. Better to have a slight forward force on the risers than make another mistake, or adjust the length and drill it one size larger. AN3 to AN4.

Thanks..

Curtis Scholl
 
Hi Folks:

It is winter, and the garage is not heated. SO, I am going into the basement. OR wearing my Carharts a lot.

I have the drawings for the Bensen Offset Gimbal rotor head. The small parts are easily completed with a metal saw, a file and a good drill press. But, the bearing block and the retainers have large holes to be cut.

So I have a question and would like comment:

1. For the main bearing block, I could set a pilot hole, then use a hole cutter for metal for 2 1/4" hole and fine tune it with a fly cutter bit in a drill press for the bearing block itself. I only have a three jaw chuck in the small lathe otherwise I would try a boring tool.

2. I could set a pilot hole in the retainer plates and cut them with the fly cutter...the metal is only 1/4" deep. Otherwise using a 1 3/4" hole cutter, and fine tune with a fly cutter.

But first I have to finish building the workbench, set the drill press and buy a bench grinder,....

There is a different set of support equipment needed for building this gyro (sort of expected) than what I needed for my High Power Rocketry large rocket build. But there are more uses for a basement workspace than this project. And the tools will benefit building go carts!!

Curtis S.
 
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