Airports are work

dabkb2

Dave Bacon
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Tina and I brought are gyro's to Hemet airport last week. The only time I have at an airport was in my training with Charlie Mara, and he did all the radio work. I have 96 hours in a gyro so I think I am ready for it but it is a little more complicated than just flying around the desert, not to mention that my mic did not work. I could hear but not transmit, Tina did a good job letting the other pilots know what I was doing but it is not good ,not to be able to talk to the other pilots in the pattern. I am getting my radio fixed and think I will really like flying at an airport, but there is something to be said for the freedom of flying at El Mirage
 

ventana7

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Flying at Airports

Flying at Airports

Dave,

I envy you guys flying from El Mirage and I hope to get out to join you there sometime soon.

Flying at an airport is of course a normal part of aviaiton for most of the rest of us. I respect you and Tina for trying to do what you did and I do not want to come down on you and dampen your enthusiam in any way, however I think you really need to spend some time with an instructor and some ground school time to learn airport proceedures and aviation decision making.

If you cannot get time with a CFI in a 2 place gyro then take a few lessons in a Cessna-172 with a fixed wing instructor to learn airport proceedures.

Gyros cannot aford to alienate other pilots and if we fly where they are the responsiblilty lies with us to conform. Please do not be the ones to give our sport a bad name at your local airport.

Rob
 

dabkb2

Dave Bacon
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Rob

Rob

I agree. I want to make friends not enemy's. Tina has her ticket, so she is good to go. Tina's dad is a retiered CFI, and he has given me about 5 hours pinch hiters training. I am use to flying the pattern, and woud'nt try it if I did not think I was ready for it. I was just saying that I love the freedom of El Mirage.
 

giro5

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Dave, I suggest you make sure you try out both yours and Tina's radio with the gyro under power somewhere before you try to use it at an airport. Hand helds and ultralight engines are usually mean statically sounding transmissions at least in my experience. One can usually apply enough squelch to cut out your own engine noise during reception if the other aircraft are close and their signal strong but your transmissions can carry your engine noise so that they cannot understand you. You just have to fly and see what kind of reception Tina gets on the ground from your radio.
 

Riff Raf

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Dave
How did you like Charlie for an instructor?
I'm going to see him in three weeks to get my first lessons, I'm going for a week.
any pointers for me?
THX
Roger
 

Tina

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I agree. I want to make friends not enemy's. Tina has her ticket, so she is good to go. Tina's dad is a retiered CFI, and he has given me about 5 hours pinch hiters training. I am use to flying the pattern, and woud'nt try it if I did not think I was ready for it. I was just saying that I love the freedom of El Mirage.

You all can see why I fall for this guy now. He has a cool head. Me I would have given Rob a piece of my mind and it would have not been pretty. :tape:
 

dabkb2

Dave Bacon
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HBlearn2fly

HBlearn2fly

In my opinion Charlie is a great instructor. He has some hard lessons for you, so do not get disappointed. One flight you will have it all together, and the next you will be lost. It is a learning curve. Charlie does an awesome ground school, but there is nothing like putting it into practical experience. I am not sure what machine you have, but I suggest you bring it with you, he will fly it for you and tell you how it fly's. Charlie's main point of training is to transition you from his gyro to your's. Charlie's gyro does not have great flight characteristics, but if you can fly it, you can fly most gyro's. I fly a KB2 mac with no horizontal stabilizer, and after training with Charlie it was easy. His landing at first can be difficult, 300 ft power down to landing. It is not easy at first, but the first time you have an engine out you will thank him for it, I know I did. It can be cold in November so you might want to invest in a flight suit.

Charlie is a good people so go expecting a great time. Bring you're camera and a good attitude, and expect to sleep good at night, learning to fly can be exhausting. After 3 hours a day I was done. Your experience might be different than mine, I'm sure it will, but if Charlie signs you of to solo you will be ready.
 

Riff Raf

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Thanks Dave
that's some great advise.
I have an Air Command 503
 

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dabkb2

Dave Bacon
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I am sure that Charlie is familer with that machine. Britt had a gyro just like that, pod and all, so he will know all about it.
 

Riff Raf

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Hey Dave
I just received this email!

You all know Charlie Mara. Charlie departed the San Manuel Airport for one of his frequent hikes along the San Pedro river sometime around midday Wednesday. We he did not return by sunset, the County Sheriff's Department was called and a limited search initiated Wednesday evening. At daybreak Thursday several local pilots conducted an air search along the river. Charlie's apparently lifeless body was quickly located and the Deputies were immediately directed to the scene. It was confirmed that Charlie was dead; however, there were no signs of any struggle, no marks on the body and no cause-of-death is known at the present time. Several theories have been postulated, but in fairness to Charlie's family and many friends, we all need to wait for the official results of the Sheriff's investigation and coroner's findings.

Charlie was well known and respected in our small flying community -- he will be sorely missed. Mary and I are helping Charlie's fiance, Bobbi, right now and we are having to address a million-and-one issues over the telephone -- If you are one of Charlie's gyro students and you have any questions, please e-mail me at [email protected] ALSO, if you know of any other of Charlie's students not listed above, would you please forward this message to them? Many thanks.

Bob Hanson
EAA Chapter 1406
 

LuftCarl

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I learned to fly fixed-wing at the Hayward Executive Airport. Hayward is Class D, overlaid by Oakland Class C, overlaid by San Francisco Class B, with San Jose Class C just to the south and two more Class D just west across the bay. As you can imagine, communication is critical. It took me a long time to get the terminology, phrasing, order, and rules all straight. It also takes a while to train your hearing to pick out your tail number and understand the rapid fire instructions from the ATCs to you and others in your vicinity. I have gotten to use to the expression "say again", but it is better than getting it wrong.

Don't be afraid or embarrassed to let the ATC know you are unfamiliar or a student. They will go easier on you until you get the hang of it.
 

dabkb2

Dave Bacon
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HBlearn2fly

HBlearn2fly

That is very sad news, please keep us informed.
 

giro5

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That is indeed very sad news. My condolences to any family members
 

Riff Raf

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Hey Guys
Sorry, I guess I took this thread out of contex a bit with the info about Charlie (i.e. hyjacked) it was supposed to be about (Airports are work)
I'll figure out how to make a new thread,
and keep you posted on what happened to Charlie.
Roger
 

Hognose

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Roger --

Thanks for letting us know about Charlie. Rotten news, that; I hope it was something instantaneous and not suffering. Heart goes out to his fiancee and other survivors.

Under the circumstances, a little threadjacking was probably OK.

Dave --

I'm sure you see where Rob is coming from. I travel around a lot and hear pilots from towered fields screwing up in untowered, and vice versa, all the time. It's all about being in a situation that isn't what you're used to.

Most smaller towered fields have a lot of tolerance for inexperienced (with the radio) pilots. The only controllers I've heard get testy are at busy fields or on approach or center frequencies. That's because they're dealing with a lot of traffic. They will make their assumption about how competent you are as a pilot based on how competent you SOUND on the radio.

If you get good instruction and develop good habits on a not-too-busy Class D airport, you'll be ready to ease in to the rapid-fire environment of busy fields.

People who are already comfortable on the radio (like military folks and ham operators) pick it up quickly, but radio procedures form a real stumbling block for some students. Sometimes it helps to listen to an airband scanner on a busy frequency (like one of the LAX approach control freqs).

cheers

-=K=-
 

kc0iv

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One suggestion I would make. Listen to Radio traffic on a monitor. There are also many internet sites that you listen to radio traffic.

Leon
(kc0iv)
 

Sir Real

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Kevin is right (no surprise there). It's what you are used to. I learned to fly at a class D airport, and for quite a while I was more nervous & worried flying to a nontowered airport than class D or C or even B. You get used to the security of having someone else looking for and handling traffic. And as he said, don't be embarrassed to ask for a repeat, or to admit that you are a student or low time pilot. I know one pilot who has over 500 hours, but still identifies himself as a student when flying to an unfamiliar & busy airport.

That being said, the best way to tick off the controllers, as well as the other traffic in the area, is to key up your mic and say:

"um...............

Fred...........Mertz....uh......traffic

um............

Cessna........November 3......uh....6..2..fiver....X-Ray....no, wait....Echo...

inbound.....about......um.......2500 feet......no, wait, about.....um.....2300

approxomately......let's see....ah......3 miles.......uh, no, make that 7 miles....

southwest....or is that southeast?.......

inbound for a....wait...(off mic) honey, did you need to get out and stretch your legs?.....you sure?....inbound for touch-and-go."

These are the guys we need Minigun Man to have a talk with...
 

Hognose

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(T)he best way to tick off the controllers, as well as the other traffic in the area, is to key up your mic and say:

"um...............

Fred...........Mertz....uh......traffic

um............


That's one thing that flying in the system (IFR) cures most ricky-tick (fast). Pull that kind of stunt with Boston Approach or Atlanta Center and the next thing you hear is:

"Tri-Pacer 38D, turn right 030 intercept the 110 radial of PSM, climb maintain six thousand, hold at DME one-niner on the 110 radial, time is one nine one nine Zulu, expect further clearance at one nine five zero zulu."

And he grins at the newbie controller he's breaking in and says, "that gets that bozo out of our hair for a half hour anyway."

Of course, that's when the bozo calls back with, "Uh... center.... this is 38D... uh... say again?"

Some of these guys sound like the old Get Smart TV show. "I didn't get that part, Chief." "What part was that, Max?" "The part after my callsign...."

But it's simply a matter of what you're habituated to. The rapid fire instructions on a busy frequency are very daunting the first time you hear them. Eat the elephant one bite at a time and soon you'll be saying to yourself, "gee that guy's a bozo, I bet the controllers send him to hold in the middle of nowhere."

Which is a bit cruel, but it sure beats other people saying it about you.

cheers

-=K=-
 

PW_Plack

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I know a fixed-wing CFI in Buffalo, Bob Miller, who offers a biennial flight review and IFR refresher in which he takes pilots into five New York area airports, a full-day ordeal, for $599. He stays booked pretty solid. He says that it makes wusses into grown-up pilots in a single day!

He also tells some hair-raising stories about communicating with ATC while approaching LaGuardia in a piston single with jets coming in behind. I'm trying to get him to roll tape!
 

magilla

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It is a learned skill,and the only way you can learn is by doing. Excellent advice, all the way around!!

Attack it by the "crawl, walk, run" method - Listen to the chatter at a busy airport for an hour or so, then try talking to a non-towered airport, then to an approach control. Practice saying those things that are required (ID, POSN, ALTITUDE) and learn the extras ("With Information Zulu")

I make it a habit to climb above my usual 500' AGL and talk to center and the different FSS's to get weather, make calls back to my flight ops, and report my location, etc.

If you're never going to do IFR, you at least need to talk to approach inbound to a Class C or one of the few remaining TRSAs just to see how VFR traffic goes,and how they operate. It gives you confidence that they can see you and the other folks flying out there, and getting advisories ("Tripacer at your 3 O'clock, 3 miles, out of 1500 climbing to 10,000") makes you feel good.

Excellent advice above though.
 
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