Air Command Gyro paperwork

[AIRCTOM]

I have recently purchased an Air Command Gyro 447. It is an ultralight, so no paperwork required, nor received from seller. However, I am considering upgrading the 447 to a larger engine. I have NO paperwork.When I up-grade, the gyro will become an experimental aircraft and I will need to document stuff like weight & balance. Air Command has not been very helpful. Does anyone have an assembly manual for Air Command gyros ?
I don't know if the manual is universal or different for each model.
I would be happy to pay for a copy.
I am trying to find out what changes are necessary to use a Subaru 2.2 or 2.5 engine.
I am thinking of installing amphibious floats. Has anyone done this ? Any info would be helpful. Such as recommended motor ?, rotor blade length ? etc.

Enough questions for now.

Thank you for your help in advance..

Tom

 

[CLS447]

If you don't mind......Who did you buy it from? I may have delivered it to the last owner & test flew it.

He lived in NY.

 

[AIRCTOM]

Purchased it from Bruce Santella, near Pittsburg, PA

Tom

 

[CLS447]

Nope...wrong guy !

How about some pics? Is it the original Low Rider style ?

I have mine for 20+ years & I still have the original assembly manual.

 

[AIRCTOM]

Yes it is the original low rider style.
Do you want to sell a copy of your assy manual ?

 

[CLS447]

Hi Tom! I spent an hour or so on the phone with Tom last night.

Nice guy with alot of questions......cmon let's help him out !

http://www.sportcopter.com/images/jpg/floats1.jpg

 

[Friendly]

Chris,
are you suggesting he put floats on a low rider gyro? Surly not.

If you have a 447 then you would be better to spend the time changing the centerline or getting good instruction before making modifications. just my two cents.

 

[AIRCTOM]

I am scheduled to received flight training in the spring.
I am only looking into the possibility of putting the Air Comand gyro on floats. I will certainly need to make significant changes to the aircraft - such as larger engine, etc.
Now, why not put a low rider on floats ? Has anyone done so and crashed ? Is the CLT as big an issue as Air Command implies ? The RAF 200 has all the bad things - no horizontal stabalizer, side by side seating, cabin enclosure, and HTL but they seem to have a happy following.
I am just looking for opinions and input from experienced flyers.

 

[NoWingsAttached]

I don't know what your mechanical abillities are, and your tool inventory. I did a CLT conversion to an AC Tandem that turned out very nicely, using my own design and buying the raw materials from Aircraft Spruce for the most part. plenty of guys here have done so. I was able to re-use 95% of the existing structure. All-in it only cost about $300! Not bad for an upgrade that made the machine handling characteristics flawless, and up-to-date. It looks great, too. A guy that designed his own gyros up in Michigan had a float design he employed successfully. He did flip it over on take-off once, someone reported a boater created a wake and he caught the wave unexpectedly just at lift-off. I can't swear to it, I wasn't there.

 

[NoWingsAttached]

Ummm...Guys, what do you think of a Soob, with all that weight, on a AC single? Seems like the machine is going to be unbalanced. A hang test will definitley be in order. Might I suggest that as a person new to flying gyros, you stick with the tried and true until you have a couple hundred hours under your belt, unless you are already very experienced in other forms of flight....just a thought. Not bein preachy. But hey, sticking a 200 pound monster where belongs a 100 lb weight seems like it will take some experience to get the COG in the right place

 

[AIRCTOM]

Please bear in mind that at this time I am only speculating. I certainly will be flying the AC as is for the summer while I gain experience. I may do nothing to the craft except fly. I do like the ultralight facet of the craft as it is. If I go to floats, I thought I might need the power of the Subaru to get off the water carring the extra weight of the floats. I expect to locate the battery as required to obtain the proper CG.
I am new to gyros, but I have built a Scorpion 1 helicopter and a KR2 plane in the past.
I am a non-current private pilot with instrument rating, but 0 gyro time til spring.
I have a complete machine shop at my disposal to complete any revisions. I picked up a pair of Puddle Jumper amphibious floats on e-bay for the gyro at a good price. If I decide not to make the mods on my gyro, I will simple re-sell the floats on e-bay.

 

[Jazzenjohn]

I wouldn't even consider changing the engine or adding floats until you've flown for at least a hundred hours. You're talking about putting on an engine that weighs 3 times as much or more than the engine currently on that gyro. No part of the structure was designed for that. You'd also have to consider many gyros can handle a 3 g pancake landing, but 3 g's on your new engine isn't 300 lbs anymore, it's more like 1000+ lbs. For the engine alone. Big difference.

As far as the floats, they add low mass and drag to a gyro that has too much low mass and drag. It would make the gyro much more dangerous.

With your building experience you could modify it to center line thrust. there is a neat time lapse video of Rotorhead doing that mod to an A/C 447 here:
http://www.rotor-head.com/videos/clt_time_lapse.html

 

[AIRCTOM]

Nice video.
I wish I could work that fast ! !

 

[Jazzenjohn]

He's made quite a few really high quality videos. Also look at Tim Chick's videos. He always seems to come up with something for any occasion.