Air Command Final Rework

Midget 1

Newbie
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
37
Location
Palm Bay, Fl
Aircraft
Midget Mustang, Air Command Elite
Total Flight Time
1600
Presenting to the forum my version of a revised Air Command Elite. Note the photos as was purchased last Oct from Larry Boyer; then the changes, engine turned upright and lowered prop to within 1 and 1 half inch of keel. Tail feathers moved back 13 in. Note that mast is the taller "super thruster' mod and the rotor blades are 25 ft Dragon Wings. Original CG to thrust line computed to 7 in; new value is 3 and 1 half. She flies great and feels very pitch stable; will seek out more experienced flyers to confirm same. Been a great learning experience; my special thanks to my mentor, Mike Hughes
 

Attachments

  • airport breakfast 11-20-10 011.jpg
    airport breakfast 11-20-10 011.jpg
    85.2 KB · Views: 2
  • DSCF0031.jpg
    DSCF0031.jpg
    38.3 KB · Views: 2
  • DSCF0032.jpg
    DSCF0032.jpg
    34 KB · Views: 2

Earthboundmisft

The 'FIXER'
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
2,105
Location
Satellite Beach, (Sea Park),(Original 'Lums Bums'
Aircraft
The 'MISSFIT' gyro, GRAND CHAMPION, Bensen Days 2010
Total Flight Time
700 F/W, 227 Gyro
Art's frustrating attention to detail carried on beyond his stunning fixed wing build. After an agonizing wait, I test flew his refined low rider. Notable improvement in pitch behavior, combined with a LIVELY rudder response, confirmed our EXTENSIVE hang test results. NOW, we got THREE whirlybirds on the East coast, (Penguin is at large too).
 

Bumperdog

Newbie
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
408
Location
Latrobe, Pa.
Aircraft
KB3
Total Flight Time
200 +
That sure is one very nice Air Command, always has been my favorite. Could you tell me who made the wood prop?
 

Midget 1

Newbie
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
37
Location
Palm Bay, Fl
Aircraft
Midget Mustang, Air Command Elite
Total Flight Time
1600
This is the original equipment prop that came with the kit in 1990. The paperwork does not reveal manufacturer but the prop label says its a Canadian product. Dennis Fetters could probably give you the details of manufacture and they still exist.
 

gyroplanes

FAA DAR Gyropilot
Joined
Mar 18, 2004
Messages
6,070
Location
Lansing, Illinois (Chicago South Suburb)
Aircraft
(1) Air Command, (1) Barnett, (1) Air Command 2 place kit, (1) Sycamore gyro
Total Flight Time
2650
Props were made by GSC. Good props, made in Canada as stated. They used the Ultraprop hub ans made wooden blades instead of the untwisted composite material Ultraprop used.
 

Joe Pires

star hoarder
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
2,851
Location
Geneva FL FD92
Aircraft
Aviomania GS2.
Total Flight Time
600 ish solo gyro and 190 ish two place
Looking good Art. Can't wait to see it, and you fly.
 

Fl90

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
1,719
Location
Lake Placid, Fl
I've got to say, Art, you did good. The ground handling is much improved. The rudder authority is excellent. Pitch stability is good. Stick position required advancement through increasing throttle settings and speed ranges, all the way to full throttle and max S/L speed. Power change reactions are mild and predictable. Centerthe stick R/L and fly it like a new toy.

Phil
 

RICK MARTIN

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
2,161
Location
BRADENTON, FLORIDA
Aircraft
Everglades Kite Gyro, Tandem Dominator
Total Flight Time
900 hours
Art,

Looks like you have a real beauty there. You've set another great example with your patience and your understanding of the modifications needed. We are going through the same thing right now with another nice Air command here.

Have fun. You earned it. Oh, are you satisfied with the 25's. In other words, do you still think they are too long?
 

choppergabor

Newbie
Joined
Apr 15, 2009
Messages
4,864
Location
Sunshine State
Aircraft
N65GK Behemoth
Total Flight Time
Too few to mention
Art that piece of "ART" (no pun intended :) ) looks beautiful. I'll see it soon in person :) Beautiful work!
 

Midget 1

Newbie
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
37
Location
Palm Bay, Fl
Aircraft
Midget Mustang, Air Command Elite
Total Flight Time
1600
Rick, I am at a loss to give your question an intelligent answer. The 25 ft blades perform beautifully for what I have been doing but are probably not as loaded as they should be. I have never flown any other blades so I can't say if I would be happier with 24's or 23's. She flies with confidence throught out the speed range and lands softly and predictablely. What more can I ask?
 

Fl90

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
1,719
Location
Lake Placid, Fl
from my numbers...
Art is flying at about 580lbs, and I was around 615.

But, that is just an educated guess.

Phil
 

Midget 1

Newbie
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
37
Location
Palm Bay, Fl
Aircraft
Midget Mustang, Air Command Elite
Total Flight Time
1600
According to the last Weight and Balance done in 2001, the empty weight is 386.0 lbs; max gross weight listed at 750 lbs. I have moved things around a bit but haven't added much weight in the process so these numbers should be close.
 

NoWingsAttached

Unobtainium Member
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
4,897
Location
Columbia, SC
Aircraft
Air Command Tandem w/ Arrow 100hp; GyroBee w/ Hirth 65hp; Air Command Tandem w/ Yamaha 150hp
Total Flight Time
>350
I am flying 24' DWs with dry weight 308#, TOW is about 500-520. THey are REALLY fun to land in ANY wind condition. THey also let you know when you are in a thermal lift! LOL.

However, this particular set has way too much AOA, they are twisted far too much and turn EXTREMELY slow. How do I know? I put them on an Air Command tandem, as a 28ft disk, and they turned 280. I put them on my BEE as a 24 ft disk, and they turned 280.

Crazy numbers for either machine. But they take off at 220 RRPM, so there is plenty of differential between flying speed and take-off speed, where they quit lifting the gyro all together, so I believe it is safe.

The BIG issue is take-off. THey need a HEALTHY prerotation to avoid flapping. I take off VERY carefully.

Love your gyro, can you bring it to Wrens ROC in October please?
 

Dean_Dolph

Newbie
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,923
Location
Katy, TX.
Aircraft
None but enough kits in the garage to keep me busy the rest of my life!
Total Flight Time
Zilch!
Lookin' Good! The paint scheme is definitely an eye catcher.

Gotta question or two. I've seen several COM determination tests and at Bensen Days a few years ago, where Stan Foster did the honors, I felt that the procedure was a mite tedious although it was the best I had seen. The use of a rotating laser by Stan was a unique use of the technology.

The one problem that I'm not sure can be sorted out, is the accuracy/precision of the actual hang and thrust lines.

Stan, and crew, used duct tape and placed it where ever needed and then used a laser to draw a line from the hang point which was duplicated with a black marker on the duct tape. Like I said, I felt that was a little crude but I don't have any suggestion that would do anything different. The prop thrust line was then crossed over the hang line and black marked. I wasn't convinced that the hang and thrust lines were accurate but it could very well have been 'close enough'! I'm kinda of a get 'er as accurate and precise as possible type of guy so 'close enough' always bothers me.

Doing the 1st hang was pretty straight forward although some gyros did present a challenge. And in some cases a 2nd hang was nigh on impossible because there wasn't a good non destructive, to other components, place to get that hang. So, consequently the 'balance' procedure was performed instead of the 2nd hang.

So, my questions are, how did you perform the 'balance' test? I see the clever use of a hydraulic floor jack under the front wheel but it appears that the tail wheel is supported also. Is that just for the pix? As I understand the balance test, the gyro is balanced on blocks so the tail must be free to move. What am I missing?

Someone should write up a standard COM determination procedure using the double hang and also the balance method and make it a sticky somewhere so it would be available to all. Using a standard procedure should make sure that all determinations are performed much the same and thus comparisons between gyros would be valid. I appreciate and applaud the effort that you, and others, have gone through in order to determine the COM but I'm just not sure we are doing the best we can do.
 

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,020
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
I am flying 24' DWs with dry weight 308#, TOW is about 500-520. THey are REALLY fun to land in ANY wind condition. THey also let you know when you are in a thermal lift! LOL.

However, this particular set has way too much AOA, they are twisted far too much and turn EXTREMELY slow. How do I know? I put them on an Air Command tandem, as a 28ft disk, and they turned 280. I put them on my BEE as a 24 ft disk, and they turned 280.

Crazy numbers for either machine. But they take off at 220 RRPM, so there is plenty of differential between flying speed and take-off speed, where they quit lifting the gyro all together, so I believe it is safe.

The BIG issue is take-off. THey need a HEALTHY prerotation to avoid flapping. I take off VERY carefully.
Love your gyro, can you bring it to Wrens ROC in October please?
No your over disked..you should have listened to dad and used 22' not 24'. All Dragon Wings are twisted the same. Each set is matched and balanced and test flown with the hub bar they come with. You should not be mixing and matching hub bars and blades. Disk loading should be 1.3 to 1.6 no lower than 1.3. While I am at it you seem to bash my dad's blades every chance you get on here. Yet when we see you at fly-ins you praise them. I am confused. Why this is Greg?
 
Last edited:

Earthboundmisft

The 'FIXER'
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
2,105
Location
Satellite Beach, (Sea Park),(Original 'Lums Bums'
Aircraft
The 'MISSFIT' gyro, GRAND CHAMPION, Bensen Days 2010
Total Flight Time
700 F/W, 227 Gyro
Hello Dean, I was calling the shots on Art's hang/balance test.
With Art in the machine dressed to fly, and the seat tank full,
I balanced the machine on the elevated main wheels.
Noting the height of the nosewheel, I raised the floorjack to just touch it.
Then I shimmed the tailwheel after rocking the machine slightly,
finding the 'sweet-spot' of perfect balance.
Art then climbed out, and we proceeded with the next step.
A laser was used to project a line onto the target, then a mark was applied.
I have found that small errors marking the angles have very little effect on the
intersect point on the target. I have also found that moving 35 lbs up, or down on
the aircraft, amounts to about 3/4 inch CG change.
We were very careful to consider all influences during our test.
 
Top