Affordable helicopter?

quadrirotor

André MARTIN
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For an affordable and safer helicopter the number of parts needs to be significantly reduced.
IMHO
Dave
True Dave:

but;
One of the best small helicopters (mono-rotor, mono-seat) is the Scorpion I: no gear-box, easy to built, easy to service, easy to check out before flight, few parts, very simple concept, very affordable...
And the sky is not crowded with flying Scorpions!... Why?

I wonder if there are a lot of people eager to fly an helicopter?:confused:
 

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Blue Chips

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"And the sky is not crowded with flying Scorpions!... Why?

André,
The quote below likely answers that question.
They were essentially a bolt together kit and not manufactured from plans, those parts and/or replacement parts are unfortunately no longer available.


"In the summer of 1983, 12 years after production of the Scorpion I ended, RotorWay Aircraft, Inc. sent out a letter to all owners or prospective owners of Scorpion I and Scorpion II helicopters warning of faulty equipment. Replacement parts for the helicopters had also been discontinued and RotorWay felt that any/all helicopters had outlived their useful life. RotorWay recommended any still existing Scorpion I or II helicopters be considered for static display only. First and second generation RotorWay rotor systems were permanently grounded at this time."
 

quadrirotor

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"And the sky is not crowded with flying Scorpions!... Why?

André,
The quote below likely answers that question.
They were essentially a bolt together kit and not manufactured from plans, those parts and/or replacement parts are unfortunately no longer available.


"In the summer of 1983, 12 years after production of the Scorpion I ended, RotorWay Aircraft, Inc. sent out a letter to all owners or prospective owners of Scorpion I and Scorpion II helicopters warning of faulty equipment. Replacement parts for the helicopters had also been discontinued and RotorWay felt that any/all helicopters had outlived their useful life. RotorWay recommended any still existing Scorpion I or II helicopters be considered for static display only. First and second generation RotorWay rotor systems were permanently grounded at this time."
Can't you change (make) what you need?
I thought that in the EXPERIMENTAL category you can do what you want, if you know how????
The builder-pilot certifies that the aircraft is SERVICEABLE!????
 

Blue Chips

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Yes you can, but there are no plans for the Scorpion I or II, where would one start and if you did manage to build or copy one it would not be a Scorpion I or II because it would be of your own making.
 

quadrirotor

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Yes you can, but there are no plans for the Scorpion I or II, where would one start and if you did manage to build or copy one it would not be a Scorpion I or II because it would be of your own making.
OK! That's the actual problem!...
So buy one Scorpion (I or II) which gathers dust inside a garage and see what you can do, with the help of a knowledgeable person...
 

Blue Chips

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OK! That's the actual problem!...
So buy one Scorpion (I or II) which gathers dust inside a garage and see what you can do, with the help of a knowledgeable person...
That would definitely be a viable plan, finding one may be slow going but likely they are out there.

Jon (here on Rotary Wing Forum) has one that he has made extensive modification too, the frame, rotor mast/swashplate and body may be the only thing that is actually original Scorpion II components, not sure on that really.
 

brett s

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If the Scorpion 1 was such a great design you'd have seen a bunch flying back in the day & they'd have kept churning out kits. Neither happened...
 

Blue Chips

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Brett,
Like any successful manufacturer and you would have to admit Rotorway is, they evolved into improved designs, they still are.

I have never seen any numbers for the Scorpion I or II so not sure how many actually were built and flown on a regular basis or the number of kits sold, it would be interesting to know though.
 

Rotor Rooter

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And the sky is not crowded with flying Scorpions!........ Why?
I wonder if there are a lot of people eager to fly an helicopter?:confused:

Better Pilot or Better Craft ~ A trip down memory lane.


Fifteen years ago most believed that the Benson gyrocopter was 'The One'.
The few who advocated improvements were jumped upon as heretics by his disciples, and then by the flock. The horizontal stabilizer had to be positioned so as to also serve as a rock guard for the propeller. The vertical relationship of the rotor, the propeller and the pilot were fixed. And, reducing the parasitic drag of the pilot and the engine was verboten.


These commandments satisfied the Bensenites. It provided them with a low cost of participation. Plus, the challenges of building, maintaining, and particularly piloting the craft, were rewarded by the recognition of their peers.


In retrospect, the simpleness of the craft and the difficulty in piloting it are hallmarks of both Igors. They also had a similarity when it came to promotion. Sikorsky was the primary founder of the American Helicopter Society and Bensen was the founder of the Popular Rotorcraft Association.

___________________________________

Slowly there has been a movement toward safer gyrocopters. Many of these improvements are adding to the cost of the craft. In addition, the latter gyrocopters, particularly those from Europe, appear to be pushing the craft toward an eventual merging with the recreational helicopter. A VTOL rotorcraft that has no tail-rotor and no swashplate,

This, recreational, and perhaps utilitarian, rotorcraft will significantly reduce the need of, and the excitement for, better piloting. But, if volume production comes about then so will the ‘Affordable Helicopter’.


IMHO
Dave
 
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I confess it had never occurred to me to visualize a 2 blade articulating rotor system like the Bees, not sure why. This seems like it would be the best of both worlds, easy to store but with the positive feedback of an articulated head. Does anyone know of any other example of a ship with a 2 bladed articulated rotor system?

Tim
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Didn't spot an answer to this, so I thought I would chime in.
Many years ago (1930s), Weir of Scotland built two-blade articulated rotors, back in the glory days of autogyros when G & J Weir & Company were hooked up with the Cierva company. I think the W-2 was one of these (look close at the rotor head and see for yourself). There was a big effort in those days to get automatic jumping capability, with collective response to engine torque. Photo attached:
 

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quadrirotor

André MARTIN
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It seems the MOSQUITO has a lot of success, may be more than the HELICYCLE and amazingly there is no special thread(-forum) in this rotary-forum! Why and what do you think of the MOSQUITO?
 

James

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That's interesting, I have been thinking the same thing. I know they will autorotate safely from any height, what about the 2 cycle engine, is it as troublesome as most, or are they pretty reliable?
 

hillberg

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put a bladder in the fuel tank, post crash fires from ruptured structure:rip::flame:,stronger skids, Other than that the little bugger's not too bad.:)
 

Rotor Rooter

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Didn't spot an answer to this, so I thought I would chime in.
Many years ago (1930s), Weir of Scotland built two-blade articulated rotors, back in the glory days of autogyros when G & J Weir & Company were hooked up with the Cierva company. I think the W-2 was one of these (look close at the rotor head and see for yourself). There was a big effort in those days to get automatic jumping capability, with collective response to engine torque. Photo attached:
And here is the Weir W-5 helicopter that may not cost too much to build. Weir W.5 1938


Dave
 

bryancobb

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The BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG plus to the MOSQUITO is...

...YOU CAN BUY ONE FACTORY BUILT, NEW, AND TEST FLOWN. Then it can be a Part 103 Legal Ultralight and you don't have to be bothered by many of the FAR's, No medical, No license. You don't even have to have any kind of maintenance records.

Now a smart pilot would get dual instruction at least to the solo point. You would also be smart to maintain logs. You just don't have to do it with government oversight.

Two friends and I went to Trenton, FL a few months ago to the annual fly-in. I became friends with Mark Thompson. He flies MedEvac. That's him in the middle. That's his Dad, Eddie to his left.


Mark's Dad Eddie is one of only two fatalities that have happened in Mosquitoes since the early 2000's. One guy tried to land on the water without any training and flipped it. The other one was when Eddie, an aerospace engineer was doing some unproven mods on the horizontal stab. Mark helped investigate and seemed to feel the stab mods caused the accident.

Mark flies the snot out of everyone else's now so he doesn't own one. Here's "THE MAD MOSQUITO" that Eddie lost his life in.


They are getting great results with the Canadian MZ-202 engine they are using. I don't think there has been any engine failures in several years. It has ceramic pistons and they run 50:1 premix in it. I have never flown one myself, but they have 250# pilots flying them all over the place. John Uptigrove, from Canada, is a REAL Licensed Professional Engineer (P.E.) so you just expect a higher level of quality, and properly designed components. The ships are high for what you are getting, but when you figure they burn 4 or 5 gals/hr of car gas, that alone will pay you back.

Many guys are flying them around without a single lesson. I don't encourage that but it can be done.

THE BIGGEST DISADVANTAGE IN...THE FACTORY STAYS BEHIND AND IT COULD TAKE YOU 2+ YEARS FOR YOUR HELICOPTER TO BE COMPLETED.
 
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Fly Army

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It seems the MOSQUITO has a lot of success, may be more than the HELICYCLE and amazingly there is no special thread(-forum) in this rotary-forum! Why and what do you think of the MOSQUITO?
After over eight years of this thread being kicked around I think the BEST answer to the OP's basic question is clear - The Mosquito is the ANSWER. From a price standpoint it can be had for less than some high-end one man gyros. No, I don't like the fact that it has a two-cycle engine but when you see how well it autorotates well, why the heck not ? When I sell off my vintage Toyota Land Cruiser I'm actually thinking of getting one of the three cylinder models for farting around in. I'd like to see someone like Birdy wring one out and give us an honest evaluation of it's abilities under tough conditions.

When John Uptigrove releases the two-place Swift version of this aircraft you can bet there will be more than a few used Mosquito's on the market.
 

brett s

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I know it's sure been tempting to me!

Waiting to see what happens with the two place & also some of the 4 stroke engine options they've been experimenting with...
 

James

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I have seen the vids of the Moquito autorotating, very impressive, but who wants an engine to quit and have to leave it in some ones back yard and fine a way home. I think the Mosquito is a neat little chopper, but I have never had luck with a 2 cycle except on a chain saw. STHIL saw. that is probally why it is still running.

James Lee
 

bryancobb

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I know it's sure been tempting to me!

Waiting to see what happens with the two place & also some of the 4 stroke engine options they've been experimenting with...
The Two-Place will be at least $130,000 with a Lycoming.
Then it will burn 11 or 12 per hour.

The single seater burns 4 gals of car gas per hour + mix oil. Maybe $17 per hour operating cost. Can't beat that.
 
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