Adding Sport Pilot, Gyroplane.

Vance

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Because I don’t have a very good memory I often pull out the Federal Aviation Regulations to answer questions. I have slightly modified the details of the exchange so that it fits more people.

I was talking with a pilot at Bensen Days and he was describing what he was doing to earn a Sport Pilot, Gyroplane rating. He held a private pilot single engine land pilot certificate.
[h=1]He had been looking at 14 CFR § 61.313 - What aeronautical experience must I have to apply for a sport pilot certificate?[/h] (1.) 20 hours of flight time, including 15 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor in a gyroplane and at least 5 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.311 . [h=1](i) 2 hours of cross-country flight training, (ii) 10 takeoffs and landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport, (iii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 50 nautical miles total distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between takeoff and landing locations, and (iv) 2 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor on those areas of operation specified in § 61.311 in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.[/h] [h=1][/h] I directed him to § 61.321: How do I obtain privileges to operate an additional category or class of light-sport aircraft?

If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek to operate an additional category or class of
light-sport aircraft, you must -
(a) Receive a logbook endorsement from the
authorized instructor who trained you on the applicable aeronautical knowledge areas specified in § 61.309 and areas of operation specified in § 61.311. The endorsement certifies you have met the aeronautical knowledge and flight proficiency requirements for the additional light-sport aircraft privilege you seek;
(b) Successfully complete a proficiency check from an
authorized instructor other than the instructor who trained you on the aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation specified in §§ 61.309 and 61.311 for the additional light-sport aircraft privilege you seek;
(c) Complete an application for those privileges on a form and in a manner acceptable to the
FAA and present this application to the authorized instructor who conducted the proficiency check specified in paragraph (b) of this section; and
(d) Receive a logbook endorsement from the instructor who conducted the proficiency check specified in
paragraph (b) of this section certifying you are proficient in the applicable areas of operation and aeronautical knowledge areas, and that you are authorized for the additional category and class light-sport aircraft privilege.

He had already demonstrated all the flight proficiency requirements listed in FAR 61.311 so all his gyroplane flight instructor needed to do was fill our form 8710-11 and refer him to another CFI for his proficiency check ride.
[h=1]I suspect that some others have made this error so I thought I would share this story. [/h]
If you want to see the wording or FAR 61.311 just type it into the search window or borrow someone’s copy of the FAR/AIM.
 

AirCommandPilot

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There has also been a question about a PPL holder with fixed wing land soloing in his own single place machine, to get the solo and cross country hours. As I understand it, I can fly solo in my machine under my PPL, FWL with no endorsement, but to get the sport or private addon, I would need the aforementioned hours and checkride?
 

JEFF TIPTON

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Would depend on the operating limitations that were issued for the particular aircraft.

Some of the older limitations only required a pilot certificate.

Most issued will require a certificate in the category and class.
 

TJPUMPHREY

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Because I don’t have a very good memory I often pull out the Federal Aviation Regulations to answer questions. I have slightly modified the details of the exchange so that it fits more people.

I was talking with a pilot at Bensen Days and he was describing what he was doing to earn a Sport Pilot, Gyroplane rating. He held a private pilot single engine land pilot certificate.
[h=1]He had been looking at 14 CFR § 61.313 - What aeronautical experience must I have to apply for a sport pilot certificate?[/h] (1.) 20 hours of flight time, including 15 hours of flight training from an authorized instructor in a gyroplane and at least 5 hours of solo flight training in the areas of operation listed in § 61.311 . [h=1](i) 2 hours of cross-country flight training, (ii) 10 takeoffs and landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport, (iii) One solo cross-country flight of at least 50 nautical miles total distance, with a full-stop landing at a minimum of two points, and one segment of the flight consisting of a straight-line distance of at least 25 nautical miles between takeoff and landing locations, and (iv) 2 hours of flight training with an authorized instructor on those areas of operation specified in § 61.311 in preparation for the practical test within the preceding 2 calendar months from the month of the test.[/h] [h=1][/h] I directed him to § 61.321: How do I obtain privileges to operate an additional category or class of light-sport aircraft?

If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek to operate an additional category or class of
light-sport aircraft, you must -
(a) Receive a logbook endorsement from the
authorized instructor who trained you on the applicable aeronautical knowledge areas specified in § 61.309 and areas of operation specified in § 61.311. The endorsement certifies you have met the aeronautical knowledge and flight proficiency requirements for the additional light-sport aircraft privilege you seek;
(b) Successfully complete a proficiency check from an
authorized instructor other than the instructor who trained you on the aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation specified in §§ 61.309 and 61.311 for the additional light-sport aircraft privilege you seek;
(c) Complete an application for those privileges on a form and in a manner acceptable to the
FAA and present this application to the authorized instructor who conducted the proficiency check specified in paragraph (b) of this section; and
(d) Receive a logbook endorsement from the instructor who conducted the proficiency check specified in
paragraph (b) of this section certifying you are proficient in the applicable areas of operation and aeronautical knowledge areas, and that you are authorized for the additional category and class light-sport aircraft privilege.

He had already demonstrated all the flight proficiency requirements listed in FAR 61.311 so all his gyroplane flight instructor needed to do was fill our form 8710-11 and refer him to another CFI for his proficiency check ride.
[h=1]I suspect that some others have made this error so I thought I would share this story. [/h]
If you want to see the wording or FAR 61.311 just type it into the search window or borrow someone’s copy of the FAR/AIM.
Others have made this error! Big time. Thanks for posting it.
 

JEFF TIPTON

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(1) A Proficiency Check is required if the pilot holds a FAA pilot certificate and wants to fly a different category or class of aircraft at the Sport Pilot level. Only an FAA authorized flight instructor accomplishes a Proficiency Check. The FAA form 8710-11 is used to record the Proficiency Check. This form is completed by the applicant, signed by the recommending instructor and presented, prior to the flight, to the instructor performing the Proficiency check. The Practical Test Standards are used in conducting a Proficiency Check and the FAA FORM 8710-11 must be mailed to the Airman Certification Branch in Oklahoma City within 10 days.

 

Eric S

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If a pilot has a sport pilot gyro rating and a sport pilot airplane rating, does upgrading to a private pilot gyroplane rating automatically give private pilot airplane privileges too?
 

WaspAir

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If a pilot has a sport pilot gyro rating and a sport pilot airplane rating, does upgrading to a private pilot gyroplane rating automatically give private pilot airplane privileges too?
That's a loud and clear NO.
Ratings are never automatically upgraded. You have to meet the qualifications and take the tests to upgrade privileges to a higher certificate level in each category and class.

(It does make you a private pilot, but it will leave you with only sport pilot airplane privileges.)
 

j4flyer

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I know this is an older thread but, I’m still sorting through the FARs to determine if I will still be legal. Here are the details. I have a PPL and a logbook endorsement to fly a single place gyro issued in the 90s. Am I still legal to fly a single place gyro ? (I’m getting recurrent training. I’m not just jumping back in the water)
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
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I know this is an older thread but, I’m still sorting through the FARs to determine if I will still be legal. Here are the details. I have a PPL and a logbook endorsement to fly a single place gyro issued in the 90s. Am I still legal to fly a single place gyro ? (I’m getting recurrent training. I’m not just jumping back in the water)
It is my opinion that pilot certificates don’t expire.

Check the Airman’s registry and it should say what you are good to fly.

Assuming you are Robert Clinton Lewis your record shows only airplane single engine land and instrument airplane. It does not show a gyroplane rating.

I would give the local Flight Standards District Office a call for an opinion.

Depending on how the operating limitations for your gyroplane read; you may be able to fly it with your private pilot certificate.

I suspect it would not take you long to fly to practical test standards with one certificated flight instructor and take a check ride with another certificated flight instructor in order to earn a Sport Pilot, Gyroplane Certificate.

Practical test standards may be found here:

http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-29.pdf
 

j4flyer

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Thanks Vance. When I took lessons from Jim Logan, many years ago, a logbook endorsement for solo was all that was necessary. It sounds like things have changed. I want to make sure I comply. Thanks again
 

fara

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I know this is an older thread but, I’m still sorting through the FARs to determine if I will still be legal. Here are the details. I have a PPL and a logbook endorsement to fly a single place gyro issued in the 90s. Am I still legal to fly a single place gyro ? (I’m getting recurrent training. I’m not just jumping back in the water)

Does your FAA license say Gyroplane on it anywhere? If not then you are not rated in gyroplanes by FAA. You can fly only a single seat gyroplane that empty weighs less than 254 pounds. Meaning its an ultralight because those are not N-Numbered and require no license.
Its as simple as that. An endorsement does not give you a rating for gyroplanes in the FAA world. FAA issues a new license with all your category/class ratings right on the license.
 

j4flyer

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I appreciate all the info. When I began flying gyros my PPL and a log book endorsement was all a person needed to fly a single place gyro. For a two place you needed to obtain an add on. A new rating is always fun.
 

Mayfield

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Does your FAA license say Gyroplane on it anywhere? If not then you are not rated in gyroplanes by FAA. You can fly only a single seat gyroplane that empty weighs less than 254 pounds. Meaning its an ultralight because those are not N-Numbered and require no license.
Its as simple as that. An endorsement does not give you a rating for gyroplanes in the FAA world. FAA issues a new license with all your category/class ratings right on the license.
Hi Abid

I always recommend folks read 61.31(l)(2)(iii)(B)

No weight limitation, other than below 12,500 pounds. And if the specific aircraft operating limitations do not require a category and class rating.

Jim
 

fara

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Hi Abid

I always recommend folks read 61.31(l)(2)(iii)(B)

No weight limitation, other than below 12,500 pounds. And if the specific aircraft operating limitations do not require a category and class rating.

Jim
All exp Gyroplanes in the last decade have operating limitations that require pilots rated in rotorcraft category and Gyroplane class and I believe that overrides that tidbit of regulation exception. The way it reads is if you are flying a Gyroplane or any experimental without carrying a passenger you can fly it without having anything except a private license in any category and class. That I am sure was taken to cause a lot of accidents. This specific cat/class rating was listed as requirement for flying all exp. In all operating limitations.
 
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WaspAir

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The FAA has done a slow-motion end-run around that FAR, without going through the NPRM rule-making process, by imposing the rating requirement into op limitations as new aircraft are registered. It still applies to older experimental aircraft and they will continue to be legally flown without a rating until FAA finally goes through the proper channels to change the rule. I doubt that the accident stats point out a serious problem; if they did, that would be plenty of justification for a rule change and we would see them attack the issue directly.
 
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