accidents.. areas to avoid your advice

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,298
Location
Nipomo,California
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Givens Predator
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2400+ in rotorcraft
I will help any way I can Ariel.

I will help any way I can Ariel.

You have already demonstrated organizational skills superior to mine.

I do spend a lot of time imagining what to do when something goes wrong so I don’t have to think about it under pressure.

I feel there is a chasm between the level of detail you have now and a decision tree.

As I type this it occurs maybe to me we could try something simple like a power push over by starting about a power push over with what causes it, what initiates it, how long a pilot has to recognize it and what to do to mitigate it once he recognizes it.

There real challenge in my mind is not enough accident data points combined with insufficient and inaccurate data.

A secondary challenge on a public forum is people who pretend to know or believe flawed explanations. It is not always easy to separate fantasy from reality when it comes to gyroplanes.

There is very little I feel comfortable making a flat statement about and the gyroplane I fly is very far from the typical gyroplane as are my flying habits.

For example; I am a centerline thrust enthusiast not because I believe they are safer but because I like the way they fly. I have flown very safe gyroplanes that are high thustline with a big horizontal stabilizer and heavy controls.

I prefer a tall vertical stabilizer because of the way it manages torque roll but it is not the most popular configuration. To further complicate this I prefer a separate rudder where most people who like a tall tails prefer a full flying cruciform tail. I prefer a horizontal stabilizer outside the prop wash because I like that the feel doesn’t change with power settings and I get ground effect that tells me when to flair. The most popular gyroplanes today have short vertical stabilizers and a short articulated rudder. I prefer a full castering nose wheel by a large margin but a linked steerable nose wheel is more popular.

As I said I will help any way I can but I would not feel comfortable trying to drive it.

The more I learn the more I know I don’t know and the more complex my opinions become.

Example: early in my gyroplane flying my wind limit was simply 6kts with a 3kt crosswind component. Now it is 35 kts with a 15kt gust spread and I don’t care about the crosswind component for landing but for takeoff it is 20kts with a 10kt gust spread. It also now matters to me what the wind direction between the steady wind and the gusts. The width of the runway is important as are the surroundings that might affect the airflow.

Do you see why I feel I can’t drive it?

Thank you, Vance
 

Devulsky

SkY
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Brazil/Brasília
You have already demonstrated organizational skills superior to mine.

I feel there is a chasm between the level of detail you have now and a decision tree.
The map is a mindmap, not a decision tree. Just to help identify some common mistakes. But a decision tre is a very good ideia. We can gradually create a decision tree (not in one map).

As I type this it occurs maybe to me we could try something simple like a power push over by starting about a power push over with what causes it, what initiates it, how long a pilot has to recognize it and what to do to mitigate it once he recognizes it.
We can start with PPO in other topic (about decision tree) or here.

A secondary challenge on a public forum is people who pretend to know or believe flawed explanations. It is not always easy to separate fantasy from reality when it comes to gyroplanes.
That's why we use the forum. To agree, disagree, discuss and learn. If some information is incorrect everyone can help to assemble the puzzle. Or ask to remove because we can not say with certainty.

There is very little I feel comfortable making a flat statement about and the gyroplane I fly is very far from the typical gyroplane as are my flying habits.

For example; I am a centerline thrust enthusiast not because I believe they are safer but because I like the way they fly. I have flown very safe gyroplanes that are high thustline with a big horizontal stabilizer and heavy controls.

I prefer a tall vertical stabilizer because of the way it manages torque roll but it is not the most popular configuration. To further complicate this I prefer a separate rudder where most people who like a tall tails prefer a full flying cruciform tail. I prefer a horizontal stabilizer outside the prop wash because I like that the feel doesn’t change with power settings and I get ground effect that tells me when to flair. The most popular gyroplanes today have short vertical stabilizers and a short articulated rudder. I prefer a full castering nose wheel by a large margin but a linked steerable nose wheel is more popular.
As I said I will help any way I can but I would not feel comfortable trying to drive it.
The more I learn the more I know I don’t know and the more complex my opinions become.
:) I am becoming confused too... But can understand that when we know a lot about something it becomes more complicated to organize and to decide because we have much more alternatives.

Example: early in my gyroplane flying my wind limit was simply 6kts with a 3kt crosswind component. Now it is 35 kts with a 15kt gust spread and I don’t care about the crosswind component for landing but for takeoff it is 20kts with a 10kt gust spread. It also now matters to me what the wind direction between the steady wind and the gusts. The width of the runway is important as are the surroundings that might affect the airflow.

Do you see why I feel I can’t drive it?
I can see the details involved.

Each aircraft has its own training manual, specifications, cautions, peculiarities and "best practices". Some decisions are pilot`s choice and others are not. Certain rules are applicable to all models and other are especific. That why i think we need to find the balance and focus in something more generic but not too much.
I truly believe that a good advice (many heads participating) is better than none. If we do nothing we will have nothing.

Thank you,
Devulsky

http://www.mindmeister.com/259466293#info
 
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TJMay

Gold Supporter
Joined
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Location
Santa Rosa Beach, FL
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RAF 2000 GTX SE and Air Command Elite
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175
I prefer a horizontal stabilizer outside the prop wash because I like that the feel doesn’t change with power settings and I get ground effect that tells me when to flair.
Vance,

I know you are very careful to preface your remarks with disclaimers about them only being your opinions. With this in mind, could you explain your feeling that a horizontal stabilizer outside the prop wash tells you when to flair when in ground effect?

Thanks,
Tommy
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
4,750
Location
Colorado front range
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Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
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stopped caring at 1000
What do you think about "No balistic parachute installed"
Absence of a ballistic parachute has never caused an emergency or an accident.

Presence of one has sometimes given pilots another option for dealing with with an emergency, offering the possibility of reducing the severity of damage and injury. Ballistic recovery chutes remain rare for airplanes and nearly non-existent for rotorcraft.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,298
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
A different format would be nice.

A different format would be nice.

Hello Aerial,

I am not able to see your work without signing up for something I don’t want to sign up for.

I would be grateful if you could put it in a format that I can access without signing up.

You apear to have removed your first name from your profile.

What is the reason for this?

Thank you, Vance
 

Devulsky

SkY
Joined
Jan 23, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Brazil/Brasília
Hello Aerial,

I am not able to see your work without signing up for something I don’t want to sign up for.

I would be grateful if you could put it in a format that I can access without signing up.

You apear to have removed your first name from your profile.

What is the reason for this?

Thank you, Vance
Hi Vance,

My first name is A.r.i.e.l. I removed for security and privacy reasons since my name is unique in the world. My name in the document is complete.
To avoid spam I got two emails: one personal and another public (which is full of spam). Here i use my personal email.
Both links are free and public to read. No need to subscribe.
I prefer Mindmeister because you can read the hidden notes too and we will have always one version.
Registered and allowed, you can change the map.
I`m new here (or noob) and english is not my first language. So, i´m sorry if sometimes i´m not very clear.
Thanks for your attention.

-- A. Devulsky


______________
Adversity is the first path to truth. -Lord Byron
 
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SandL

Active Member
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Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,394
Location
Royal Wootton Bassett... UK
Aircraft
Bensen Merlin dragon wings Rotax 532
Total Flight Time
400hrs (4,000 instructional launches) gliding, 200 fixed wing, 100 gyro
I now wonder if I can make an assesment of risk for my next flight
for example

scoring 0, 1 or 2 where 0 is low risk and 2 high risk

I am trained, licenced and resonably competant 0
I have a reliable kit built CLT machine 0
I have not flown for 60 days 2
the gyro has not flown since some maintenance 2
I will fly on a low wind easy day 0
I will be flying over friendly terrain 0
I am ready and expecting an engine failure 1
I am healthy, not drunk etc 0
I will not be "hot dogging" 0

so I will have a score of 5 out of a max of 18
where the lower the score the better

a thorough preflight of the gyro, plan the flight, expect an engine failure and plan for it at every point of the flight, make sure the weather is good and I should be ok
I appreciate the list should be much longer I am just bringing the "assesment of risk" concept forward
does this make sence ?
 
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Resasi

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100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
As per training and sounds good Peter, you would seem to have covered most things.

We just have to wait for the weather to warm up a bit.
 

Jazzenjohn

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Oct 9, 2004
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Milan Mich.
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I've designed, built, and flown 4 different ultralight gyros. Amassing parts for a 2 place now.
Total Flight Time
400+
I like your assessment of risk scorecard Sandl. I use a much cruder but similar thing, in that I do my best to limit the new or different things on each flight to a maximum of 2. I do quite a bit of testing on my gyro so new things are common.
 

SandL

Active Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,394
Location
Royal Wootton Bassett... UK
Aircraft
Bensen Merlin dragon wings Rotax 532
Total Flight Time
400hrs (4,000 instructional launches) gliding, 200 fixed wing, 100 gyro
I believe we do the "risk score card" in our heads 90% of the time, the problem is when it's in your head you automatically tend to want to ignore some aspects of the flight with the desire to push your capabilities ... because it's fun !
looking back when I was about to do my PPL x country I had just had a coil fail on my 532, and had to replace a nose wheel tyre and a cracking rubber fuel pipe and filter along with spark plugs. The weather was not perfect but x country was the next hurdle to cross. I had flight planned the flight and gained prior permission, checked fuel availability, noise abatement, frequencies, from the target airfield, weather, Notams, red arrows and royal flights all checked so practically and emotionally I was ready and keen to go.
Instructor said I should do an hour or so around the field to ensure the engine was reliable. and it was immediately obvious he was so right, no discussion.
In effect my instructor was reducing the numbers on my "risk score card".
Around the target airfield circuit there was some unfriendly terrain, the weather was not perfect, I had just had maintenance and I was a little too "goal focused".
Instructor knows best !
 
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