Accident Airgyro Aviation AG-915 Spartan , 27 Sep 2022

Doctordantodd

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Well I just hope we get the best answers we can and learn what we can to fly safer. We have had a couple high profile accidents here that sort of crush the gyroplane enthusiasm. I have had a lifelong desire to fly and am so grateful I discovered the gyroplane--absolutely the most glorious blessing on planet earth.
 

Abid

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Well I just hope we get the best answers we can and learn what we can to fly safer. We have had a couple high profile accidents here that sort of crush the gyroplane enthusiasm. I have had a lifelong desire to fly and am so grateful I discovered the gyroplane--absolutely the most glorious blessing on planet earth.

Catching on fire in the air should be verified. If there was fire, that isn’t Gyroplane specific. That is a different problem that can be investigated. Fuel and wiring sub-systems and their assembly can be looked at. I don’t know who assembled it and who did the fuel and wiring but it would be wise to find out what was there and if there is any danger in design and assembly of those sub-systems or if it was specific to one machine. Catching fire in the air should be extremely rare. Many times owners make changes like installing new avionics, changing fuel filters or cleaning fuel filters or installing lighting. That are all possibilities for improper stuff that can cause fire hazards.
 
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All_In

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More of the story - Time line.
Kevin just built this kit in about 3 weeks under supervision in Texas.
On August 29th at 5:22PM Kevin texted me and several others these pictures and "Got my AWC today"
collage.jpg
Then on September the 4th Text us "She Flies" with pictures I will come back and post later. (not on this computer)
He was flying the 40 hours off. I do not know how many hours he completed toward that.
On Friday September the 23rd he text me "Did you say you have a copy of the maintenance schedule? If so could you send it to me?"
I responded with yes know that there are 10, 25, and 100 hours inspection and service. I will send it to you. It's important to do the 10 and 25 hours services during the 40 hours.
 

All_In

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Gyroplane 70Hrs, not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
More of his history...
Kevin had 100's of hour flying his Cavalon with a PerformanceEdge Engine.
He proved he could handle off airport landings when his engine blew a ring in one cylinder only a couple of months ago and he landed on a dirt road by the lake. I flew up there and his ride only had dirt on the tires.

I've flown with him and his landing were perfect.
I suspect the only way he could not have handle this landing zone was if he had smoke in the cockpit and could not see?????

I only know someone on the ground reported it being on fire while trying to land.
Know that on our AG915 that the exhaust gets red hot. It burnt the paint about 8" away on the fire wall.
I wrapped it with heat-shield and it caught the heat-shield insulation on fire, on the ground, but it only turned the insulation back with no flames.
One of the regular service items is to re-torque fuel lines and many other components too.
 

Abid

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More of his history...
Kevin had 100's of hour flying his Cavalon with a PerformanceEdge Engine.
He proved he could handle off airport landings when his engine blew a ring in one cylinder only a couple of months ago and he landed on a dirt road by the lake. I flew up there and his ride only had dirt on the tires.

I've flown with him and his landing were perfect.
I suspect the only way he could not have handle this landing zone was if he had smoke in the cockpit and could not see?????

I only know someone on the ground reported it being on fire while trying to land.
Know that on our AG915 that the exhaust gets red hot. It burnt the paint about 8" away on the fire wall.
I wrapped it with heat-shield and it caught the heat-shield insulation on fire, on the ground, but it only turned the insulation back with no flames.
One of the regular service items is to re-torque fuel lines and many other components too.

Something isn't sounding right here.
First thanks for telling us about Edge Performance engine blowing a ring in his Cavalon. This stuff never comes out and people should know what issues are possible with aftermarket conversions like EP

Having smoke in the cabin could make him dis-oriented and that certainly could cause big issues

Your AG 915 exhaust gets red hot? Why? 8 inches from the exhaust is quite far away. I am not sure the exhaust gets that hot. I see EGT in the 1450 to 1470 F zone and those are at the headers. Muffler is cooler than that by a couple of hundred degrees. What are your EGTs?

What kind of heat shield did you use to wrap on your exhaust. You should not wrap headers with exhaust wrap because it will heat the headers even more. That is not the solution. Heat shields and reflectors should be on other items like coolant pipes or hoses that run close to the exhaust not on the exhaust. Sounds to me there is no airflow in cruise flight on the engine area where exhaust is to cool it down. That cooling circuit properly designed to flow air there in cruise should solve your issue.

Why do you have to regularly retorque fuel lines. I am guessing these are AN fittings or European style banjo bolts with copper crush washers. They do not have to be retorqued. One can simply put a torque marker on them and just visually check that in inspections. That's it. Props are supposed to be checked for torque every 100 hours or on annuals. Torque markers can give any such assembly a quick visual check.
 

Tyger

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More of the story - Time line.
Kevin just built this kit in about 3 weeks under supervision in Texas.
On August 29th at 5:22PM Kevin texted me and several others these pictures and "Got my AWC today"
Then on September the 4th Text us "She Flies" with pictures I will come back and post later. (not on this computer)
He was flying the 40 hours off. I do not know how many hours he completed toward that.
On Friday September the 23rd he text me "Did you say you have a copy of the maintenance schedule? If so could you send it to me?"
I responded with yes know that there are 10, 25, and 100 hours inspection and service. I will send it to you. It's important to do the 10 and 25 hours services during the 40 hours.
I'm a little confused... the pilot was from CA, he built the machine in TX, and he crashed it in SD while flying off the 40 hours. Do I have that right?
 

Greg Vos

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Something isn't sounding right here.
First thanks for telling us about Edge Performance engine blowing a ring in his Cavalon. This stuff never comes out and people should know what issues are possible with aftermarket conversions like EP

Having smoke in the cabin could make him dis-oriented and that certainly could cause big issues

Your AG 915 exhaust gets red hot? Why? 8 inches from the exhaust is quite far away. I am not sure the exhaust gets that hot. I see EGT in the 1450 to 1470 F zone and those are at the headers. Muffler is cooler than that by a couple of hundred degrees. What are your EGTs?

What kind of heat shield did you use to wrap on your exhaust. You should not wrap headers with exhaust wrap because it will heat the headers even more. That is not the solution. Heat shields and reflectors should be on other items like coolant pipes or hoses that run close to the exhaust not on the exhaust. Sounds to me there is no airflow in cruise flight on the engine area where exhaust is to cool it down. That cooling circuit properly designed to flow air there in cruise should solve your issue.

Why do you have to regularly retorque fuel lines. I am guessing these are AN fittings or European style banjo bolts with copper crush washers. They do not have to be retorqued. One can simply put a torque marker on them and just visually check that in inspections. That's it. Props are supposed to be checked for torque every 100 hours or on annuals. Torque markers can give any such assembly a quick visual check.
Why do you say do not wrap headers? We do it on all performance engines? I have it on my bikes and on my V8’s
keeps the heat in the pipes and the hotter that header is ads to a faster gas escape…so I have been told? After all the header tape manufactures all make these claims ? I have wrapped my headers on my xenon with no issues ?
 

BEN S

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I have always been taught that header wraps do nothing but move the problem downstream....
 

All_In

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Here are the pictures of his first flight on 9/4.

IMG_1337(1).jpg
IMG_8648.jpg
IMG_8648.jpg
 

Vance

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It appears to me that phase one testing can be done anywhere the Flight Standards District Office designates.

Guidance and goals of phase one testing for experimental amateur built aircraft can be in this advisory circular:

https://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_90-116.pdf

I feel approaching phase one as a “fly off” diminishes the value and invites more oversight from the FAA.
 

GyroChuck

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Same here. Shouldn't he be doing the 40hr near the place where he built it?
If you move your aircraft to a different airport and the 40hours are not flown. Then you need to contact the FSDO for that area and request a new flight test area.

You used to be able to request 2 different flight test areas. But I heard from a local FAA person the FAA now frouns on that.
 

All_In

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Gyroplane 70Hrs, not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
Something isn't sounding right here.
First thanks for telling us about Edge Performance engine blowing a ring in his Cavalon. This stuff never comes out and people should know what issues are possible with aftermarket conversions like EP

Having smoke in the cabin could make him dis-oriented and that certainly could cause big issues

Your AG 915 exhaust gets red hot? Why? 8 inches from the exhaust is quite far away. I am not sure the exhaust gets that hot. I see EGT in the 1450 to 1470 F zone and those are at the headers. Muffler is cooler than that by a couple of hundred degrees. What are your EGTs?

What kind of heat shield did you use to wrap on your exhaust. You should not wrap headers with exhaust wrap because it will heat the headers even more. That is not the solution. Heat shields and reflectors should be on other items like coolant pipes or hoses that run close to the exhaust not on the exhaust. Sounds to me there is no airflow in cruise flight on the engine area where exhaust is to cool it down. That cooling circuit properly designed to flow air there in cruise should solve your issue.

Why do you have to regularly retorque fuel lines. I am guessing these are AN fittings or European style banjo bolts with copper crush washers. They do not have to be retorqued. One can simply put a torque marker on them and just visually check that in inspections. That's it. Props are supposed to be checked for torque every 100 hours or on annuals. Torque markers can give any such assembly a quick visual check.
20221004_122802.jpg
20221004_122501.jpg
Here are the pictures of the burn marks and the wrap with burned insulation you can really only see the suit from cooking it.
It appears to me to be about 6" to 8" away. What do you think?
No more burn marks since I wrapped it.
I did not know you should not wrap it. Thank you, will have to find another solution.
 

All_In

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Airgyro AG915 Centurian, Aviomania G1sb
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Gyroplane 70Hrs, not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
Why do you say do not wrap headers? We do it on all performance engines? I have it on my bikes and on my V8’s
keeps the heat in the pipes and the hotter that header is ads to a faster gas escape…so I have been told? After all the header tape manufactures all make these claims ? I have wrapped my headers on my xenon with no issues ?
That is what I thought. I'd like to know if I should take it off.
 

All_In

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I'm a little confused... the pilot was from CA, he built the machine in TX, and he crashed it in SD while flying off the 40 hours. Do I have that right?
Yes, that is correct. All I know is he had it shipped to a Texas port of entry, not CA where he lives, and had someone back there help him build it.
I was VERY CONFUSED when I learned he ended up in SD. I did not know he had even flown the 40 hours off yet.
Still confused...
 

Andino

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Why do you have to regularly retorque fuel lines. I am guessing these are AN fittings or European style banjo bolts with copper crush washers. They do not have to be retorqued. One can simply put a torque marker on them and just visually check that in inspections. That's it. Props are supposed to be checked for torque every 100 hours or on annuals. Torque markers can give any such assembly a quick visual check.
👍
 

All_In

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Gyroplane 70Hrs, not sure over 10,000+ logged FW, 260+ ultralights, sailplane, hang-gliders
I have always been taught that header wraps do nothing but move the problem downstream....
Hi Ben
It has not discolored since I wrapped it. I was worried it would make the turbo retain more heat and be hotter. Which is actually moving it up the exhaust stream.
To be safe do you think I should remove the wrap and affix a sheet of Aluminum on the body but held off with 1" risers to reflect the heat?
What do you guys suggest?
 
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All_In

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The fuel tank lines are hose clamps on a few lines EG the tank fill tube. You retorque/check the hose clamps as one of the services and check all lines for wear, punctures, and loose fittings.
But I took all my lines apart and retorqued ours after I learn the witness reported it being on fire. They were not loose!
 

Abid

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View attachment 1156006
View attachment 1156007
Here are the pictures of the burn marks and the wrap with burned insulation you can really only see the suit from cooking it.
It appears to me to be about 6" to 8" away. What do you think?
No more burn marks since I wrapped it.
I did not know you should not wrap it. Thank you, will have to find another solution.

John not sure those are burn marks from heat. They look more like negative air pressure sucking in some exhaust that should be headed out of the muffler. I would recommend getting some reflector shield and putting it on that white painted composite surface and taking the wrap off the muffler. Just my $0.02 and worth just how much you paid for it.
 

All_In

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John not sure those are burn marks from heat. They look more like negative air pressure sucking in some exhaust that should be headed out of the muffler. I would recommend getting some reflector shield and putting it on that white painted composite surface and taking the wrap off the muffler. Just my $0.02 and worth just how much you paid for it.
No, the paint itself is burnt, Abid. Cannot clean it off with anything but rubbing compound removing layers of paint.
Thank you, I'll design a reflector shield instead. I hated the way it looked. I had considered changing it to a reflector just for better looks.
 
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