A Cavalon Crashed

Resasi

Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
7,602
Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
Aircraft
Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
Been posted and is under discussion.
 

Kevin_Richey

Yamaha gyro...Oregon, USA
Joined
Nov 16, 2003
Messages
2,213
Location
Oregon, USA
Aircraft
Sport Copter gyroplane
Total Flight Time
300+ gyroplane, 11 airplane, 1.5 PPC, AND... a ZILLION hours of flying in my dreams!
Can the admin please delete this thread?
Don't delete this thread, because the video shows something important!

As we have seen in other takeoff videos of gyroplanes being rushed/rotated into the air, this one also shows what appears to be small clouds of dust being kicked up behind the Cavalon b/4 it was rotated. Airplane pilots are trained to rotate, instead of letting the rotorblades lift the aircraft's weight when they are ready.

It looks to be exactly what we have seen b/4: the rotorblade tips have hit the ground behind the machine while it was still on the ground, creating those little puffs of dust. The extreme angle of the rotor disc, too nose high. Ground strike likely damaged the blades, slowed them down, & may have set some serious vibration into the rotor system when they rotated.
 
Last edited:

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,660
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA

Tyger

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
401
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
270
My guess is that he decided not to use the runway. Maybe because of a direct crosswind? I am sure a lot more information will come out in the investigation.
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
7,602
Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
Aircraft
Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
My guess is that he decided not to use the runway. Maybe because of a direct crosswind? I am sure a lot more information will come out in the investigation.
That thought had occurred to me that he had attempted a take off in that direction, which...
a) ...was simply a bad decision, it was impossible.
b) ...through over anxiety, he cooked by trying to force it off the ground at the last minute and getting into last minute blade sail/flap.
c) ...being conscious of the possibility of blade sail, had not given it enough back stick, and ended up with rapid acceleration and not enough acceleration of the rotor to give him any lift.

Thing is, if he decided to give it a try he may have realised/decided that this was a TO where there would be no stopping once he began the TO roll. It was all or nothing.

There are those who do make these crazy attempts and this may possibly have been one, but as you say, we will possibly find out more from the investigation.
 
Last edited:

Tyger

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
401
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
270
It's true that east winds, especially strong ones, are quite rare in temperate regions. A slight tail wind could only have made things worse. It is hard to imagine the thought process that went into this, but c) seems like the proximate cause to me.
 

Steve_UK

Active Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
3,660
Location
UK
Aircraft
I'm not a pilot but have been lucky enough to fly in Mi-24 Hind, Mi-2, Mi-17, Lynx HAS3, Gliders, GA
If it was a conscious descision to take towards the main road ( note the runway runs parallel to the main road ) what height do you think he hoped to "clear" the busy road traffic - what height should he clear the main road traffic - the airfield appears long thin and narrow - is it wide enough to gain sufficient height to safely clear the main road traffic at all.
 

gyromike

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
3,741
Location
Abbeville, Louisiana
Aircraft
Bensen B8MG
It appears to me that the aircraft veered left on the takeoff roll. Hard to tell with the quality of the video and distance involved.
Enlarge the video and press "0" on your keyboard to keep jumping back to the beginning of the video.
It looks like there is very little lateral movement in the beginning and movement increases as the aircraft turns more toward the road.
Loss of directional control?
 

Tyger

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
401
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
270
AG marketing says 30m for takeoff, but that's probably off a hard surface, no tailwind, etc. Then one would need to go 10 feet higher to clear cars, etc. But I'm not sure this guy understood what it really takes to get all that to happen actually.
 

Tyger

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
401
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
270
It appears to me that the aircraft veered left on the takeoff roll. Hard to tell with the quality of the video and distance involved.
That would have to be about a 90° veer, it seems to me. Not very likely given the size and shape of the field.
We'll all just have to wait for the report.
 

Mac

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Messages
241
Location
Amarillo, TX.
Aircraft
Dropkeel KB2, EA81, 2.19:1, 68"Warpdrive, 24'Dragonwings, talltail
A little playing with Google Street View and a weak opinion based on being 5,491 miles away from Vyškov, Czechia

I agree with Rasasi's post #8 - A thru C, ground speed overran rotor speed,
Agree also with Tyger, the dust drifted towards what appears as his direction of ground roll - takeoff into wind

Crash video : screen shot of start of video (arrows: tall trees and building, round sign, reflector, round sign, reflector)
D46 Round signs: Used to locate crash traversing road in Street View
2nd reflector: recording vehicle traveled 2 reflectors past reference initial beginning of video, rotated Street View to Ground Roll path
Satellite View: my guess of ground roll
Satellite Vyskov Air Field: Full view of Vyskov Air Field
 

Attachments

martin-av8r

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
178
Location
quebec canada
Aircraft
dominator
i dont know if i see it correct..? when the guy rush it to the air and after it mush and drop to the road , he smash the belly in the vertical pole in the center of the road and rip off the landing gear and the tail , look at the verical pole in is trajectory before and after and i think he curved it ..? how hard is these vertical pole..?
 

ultracruiser41

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,616
Location
NC
Aircraft
Cavalon,Snobird+, Ryan PT 22,JetGyro,Titan T51,TwinStar, Radial Rocket Gyro, HummelBird
Total Flight Time
Too many to count
Poor aviation decision making. Simply put.
No gyro needs to be traveling that fast on the ground prior to take off. Rotor was barely loaded.... resulting in very little lift. IMHO.
 

Tyger

Active Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
401
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
270
Poor aviation decision making. Simply put.
No gyro needs to be traveling that fast on the ground prior to take off. Rotor was barely loaded.... resulting in very little lift. IMHO.
Exactly.
I am going to guess that he was a fixed-wing pilot who heard (and maybe saw) that this thing could take off in 30m and he wanted to try that out – but without understanding rotor management.
 

EI-GYRO

21st Century Crankhandler
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
2,210
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Do they really claim to take off in 30metres.? In still air? With more than a thimbleful of fuel and not with an anorexic dwarf at the controls?.
I've yet to see it, or anything remotely near it, on video. In fact, most of the videos I have seen were more noteworthy for the unusually long takeoff.
An overpowered single-seat Dom can get off in 30 metres. Possibly Birdy can, if he really wants to, but a Cavalon, no way.
 

Greg Vos

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
123
Location
Cape Town
Aircraft
R44/22 H269/300 MD 500 Magni (all); Xenon RST; DTA; ELA; MTO
Total Flight Time
2480 odd (1300 gyro hours & counting)
Do they really claim to take off in 30metres.? In still air? With more than a thimbleful of fuel and not with an anorexic dwarf at the controls?.
I've yet to see it, or anything remotely near it, on video. In fact, most of the videos I have seen were more noteworthy for the unusually long takeoff.
An overpowered single-seat Dom can get off in 30 metres. Possibly Birdy can, if he really wants to, but a Cavalon, no way.
Do they really claim take of in 30 meters? You have not yet met some of the arrogant Germans at AG 😂 .....
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,062
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
I looked at the POH for a 914 powered Cavalon at a weight of 1232 pounds and the takeoff distance over a fifty foot obstacle is listed at 524 feet to 820 feet on a grass strip with shot grass and no wind.

Perhaps the 98 foot takeoff in the advertisement is for a 915 powered Cavalon with the more powerful pre-rotator and less takeoff weight.
 
Top