582 Starting Problems ...

Wow! I'm really getting some good advice here. This is great!

I'm hoping that Ron has the answer ... proper gapping of the plugs. Why? Cause for one, I'm lazy and tired of messing with this. I just want to fly! And two, it makes sense because I did just install brand new plugs and I did not gap them. I just assumed that they were good straight out of the box and I didn't really consider that the gap might be all that critical. I've now heard from more than one person that the plug gap for a Rotax is pretty darn important.

So that's going to be the first thing I try when I find time to make it back to the airport.

If that doesn't work, I have a whole bunch of other things to try thanks to all of your good ideas.

I'll try to apply one fix at a time so that I can have a better shot at knowing what the real fix was.

THANKS EVERYBODY.

I WILL GET THIS FIXED AND I'LL BE SURE TO UPDATE YOU ALL ON WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE THE CAUSE.

Scott
 
I am having the opposite problem. My 582 electric start won't start with the battery cranking the engine. Always starts on the first pull with the rope starter. Thought it was a weak battery, but seems to be cranking quickly enough, but obviously not.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH
 
Yes assuming everything is set up correctly, if it was running before there would be no reason to expect that the timing would change, Although by changing the pick up the timing should be checked.
 
You MUST! gap the plugs . If the gap is to big , the timing changes a little because the mag has to rotate farther to produce more power to jump a larger gap .The mags cant produce enough power to jump the gap at starting r.p.m. . Thats why it runs O.K. after you get it started. the mags are producing more power at a higher r.p.m. Rotax recommends replacing plugs every 25 hours (I think) for this very reason. When you factor in over priming the engine and frustration you can really chase your tail. We had this problem on a 582. Change or regap your plugs at 25 hours.
 
edypaul said:
You MUST! gap the plugs . If the gap is to big , the timing changes a little because the mag has to rotate farther to produce more power to jump a larger gap .The mags cant produce enough power to jump the gap at starting r.p.m. . Thats why it runs O.K. after you get it started. the mags are producing more power at a higher r.p.m. Rotax recommends replacing plugs every 25 hours (I think) for this very reason. When you factor in over priming the engine and frustration you can really chase your tail. We had this problem on a 582. Change or regap your plugs at 25 hours.
Click to expand...


YeHaa!

Now I'm really pumped cause this plug gap track makes so much sense. I can already "see and hear" that thing springing to life on the first pull! Hope I'm not really disappointed, but, on top of all these comments that fall in line with my "experience" over the last couple of weeks, I found some Hard Evidence last night ...

I know - some of you guys are thinking - Why doesn't he just try this stuff and stop talking about it? I agree! The problem is that I have a bunch of "critical family issues" happening right now and I keep my gyro about 40 minutes from my house. So it's kind of a big deal to get out there to do anything on a week night after work. But, one way or another, I will make it out this weekend and find out about the plug gap situation.

Oh yeah, the "hard evidence" ...
Last night I pulled my supply of new plugs out of my tool box. I have two brand new plugs remaining out of the original box of 10. These should be identical to the 4 that I took out of the same box and installed in the gyro this Spring. (I've been trying to think back to when I took the gyro back to the strip for the first time this year. Can't remember exactly, but I believe that I have had from minor to severe starting issues from the beginning of this season). Anyway, back to the "New Plugs" last night. I checked the gap on these new plugs and found the gap to be very close to .030! Could almost drive a truck through the gap. I am about 99% positive that the plugs I installed in the machine are just the same. So everything Edypaul is saying is RIGHT ON THE MONEY!

Even if it doesn't solve all my problems, it has to help.

I'm so excited with the possibility of this working that I'm not even all that embarassed about how obvious and simple this is!

Thanks again to all!

Scott
 
Check your cold starting choke.

If the choke cable has no free play then it might be pulling on the choke valve
and some fuel could leak into the intake. The choke valve spring are hard ones
to make sure the seal sits tightly.

A leaking choke valve can cause easy cold starting but flooding when warm.

Best Wishes.
 
scottessex said:
Uhhhhh Huh. Aw,rite then.......Got any biscuits?
Click to expand...

I sure could go for some of them fried taters uh huh......

What are you going to do with that lawn mower blade? I aim to use it for a pusher prop on my gyro uh huh
 
Yup, you would be amazed at how many times that actually happened back when I was repairing mowers.
 
On older cars with weak ignition systems, if they were hard to start, i would knock the gaps down to 15 thou, and they would start much easier. Also keep the electrode as square as pos to the centre electrode.
 
Lee (and All),

Still don't have a solid answer.

Hope to be a lot closer by the end of the weekend.

I will tell you that the plugs were gapped at about .030 and we re-gapped them to .016 and then .018 and that did not solve the problem.

Now cleaning both carbs and installing rebuild kits. Think there was a stoppage in one of the atomizer jets. Cause I have been able to start it and get it running on one cylinder and then, by playing with the enrichers (manual chokes) I can usually get it to "catch" and run smooth on both.

More when I know more.

Thanks,

Scott
 
Got some answers ...

Got some answers ...

OK,
It's been exactly one month since my last post on this thread and I owe you guys an update.

I got lots of good advice from a lot of guys here, on other forums and in person. We (my Rotax mechanic friend, Bob and I) tried everything that you guys suggested. And each time, I fully expected to pull that starter rope and be amazed as it immediately came to life running smoothly on both cylinders. Yeah right ...

  • I changed out the CDI units.
  • Changed out the Trigger coils.
  • Put in new plugs.
  • Then actually gapped them correctly.
  • Cleaned and adjusted the carbs.
  • Put rebuild kits in the carbs.
After each of these "fixes", pretty much in that order, we tried to start it again. Each time we got the same result. Absolutely NO IMPROVEMENT!

This happened over WEEKS and was just about the most frustrating experience of all my years of flying. And I've crashed twice, totalled one and rebuilt one. This was a lot more frustrating!

Finally, the frustration got to Bob and he took the intake manifold off. He discovered that the big "O" ring/gasket that seals between the manifold and the case was apparently the wrong size when we put it in 18 months ago. It held fine all last season, but for some unknown reason, this Spring, it kind of rolled over on itself and allowed an air leak between the carbs and the crankcase. He didn't have a new gasket so he sealed it up with silicone and ...

It now starts pretty darn good. I still don't think it starts as good as it did last year, but it is about 1000% better than it was two weeks ago. For now, it's working fine with the temporary seal. I'll put a proper "O" ring in it this Winter (or sooner if it starts acting up again).

Moral of the story - If you're going to be frugal and buy rebuild seal/"O" ring/gasket kits on eBay, be sure to check them all for proper size and fit.

This was a tough one. We didn't notice that the "O" ring was wrong when we (Bob and I) put it in. And knowing that we had just (about 50 hours ago) rebuilt the motor with all new seals and gaskets, we didn't suspect that there could be any problem in that area. If it weren't for Bob's persistance and determination to solve this problem, I probably would have bought a new engine. In fact I had one all picked out on Barnstormers and called Bob to see if he had any last ideas before I pulled the trigger on the deal. That's when he told me about finding the bad seal. I went out the next day and fired it right up.

THANKS BOB!

And Thanks to all of you who offered up really good suggestions. I had great hope for each and every one of them.

I'm headed to Mentone in a couple of days and hope to see some of you there.

Thanks,

Scott
 
Brent_Brown said:
So do you have extra triggers now I can use some?
Click to expand...

Brent,

It's a little complicated. I borrowed a short block 582 from a friend and used the parts I thought I needed. I haven't really worked it out with him yet as to what he wants back or how much I need to pay him for the parts I used.

The other complication is that the lead wire on one of the trigger coils was frayed and the bare copper was exposed. I suspect that was a result of the intense vibration that occured each time I tried to get it running. So, while I think that the trigger is OK, I'm not 100% sure.

Having said all of that, let me figure out my deal with my friend and once that is done, maybe we can work something out.

If you don't hear from me in a couple of weeks, just ding me here, by PM or email.

If it's more urgent than that, let me know. It just may take a little while to talk to my Buddy cause he went to Oshkosh and I'm not sure when he'll be back. Maybe today.

Thanks,

Scott
 
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