503 Oil Injection Thoughts

[CLS447]

It was probably about a month ago that I last started my 503. Saturday night we went to the airport & ran into Larry B. there.

We got out the single seat gyros & got to do a little flying.

Here is the question...... When my gyro sits for a while it seems to load up with oil. I never had this much trouble with the 447 using premixed fuel.

Keep in mind that the engine is inverted.

I was wondering if the oil can drain through gravity from the oil tank through the oil pump & continue through the oil injection tubes into the intake manifolds ?

I took 9 pulls to start her & then had to run her for a while until the excess oil get burned up & then she clears & runs & starts great thereafter.

After startup she runs rough & smokes alot until she is clear & then smooths up nice. Oil also oozes out around the ball joint on the exhaust & makes a mess.

If so I would consider an oil shutoff valve on the oil tank (I am not crazy about it though ).

What do you all think ??? Thanks

 

[Joe Pires]

There is a banjo valve on my 582 that failed. I had the same symptom. I did install a shut off valve to which i attached a five foot remove before flight tag which i put across the seat so it would not be missed. I have also heard of others with that problem solving it by, lowering the height of the reservoir to reduce the head pressure.

I have since replaced the banjo valve (ok Ed Lemoine replaced it, god bless him) and took the shut off out of the system. It took care of the problem.

 

[CLS447]

Joe , thanks for the reply & I understand the remove before flight tag !

But......banjo VALVE ? I know that there are banjo fittings on the oil pump .

I do have my tank a little high & don't want to relocate it .

Did the shutoff valve illiminate the problem also ? Thanks

 

[Joe Pires]

The banjo fitting is a one way valve that stops the oil from leaking in. If you put it to your lips you will only be able to get breath to flow one way. Yes my on/off switch worked just fine. I just cut my oil line half way down from the tank to the engine and put it inline.

 

[Friendly]

Chris,
I have a shut of valve on mine. Its a 582. The valve is number 4 on my preflight list that I count off to myself. I put it mainly to be able to change the filter without draining the oil tank. I have had lots of problems with the Rotax oil tank, but not the engine auto oiler system.
ps. you always post some of the best pictures of what you are talking about. Your Machine always looks so clean and well thought out.

 

[CLS447]

Hey Mark, thanks for the compliment ! I did not know that the banjos were also one way valves. Obviously they only flow towards the engine.

Maybe a shutoff valve would be the ticket ?

 

[CLS447]

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this subject ?

Gravity flow of 2 stroke oil from tank to engine. Can & does this occur ?

 

[GyroRon]

My thoughts are........ I would have taken off the oil injection system and premixed.

 

[Earthboundmisft]

My thoughts are........ I would have taken off the oil injection system and premixed.

PHEW! Thanks Ron. DITTO.

 

[GyroRon]

Well to take it a step further, I would have never put the engine on upside down either. Having it upright has so many advantages it would have been worth the extra time to do it.... improved thrustline to CG relationship, improved oiling of the crankshafts bearing, less chance of fouled plugs, easier starting

 

[BEN S]

I do not agree..

I do not agree..

with he idea that premixing is better for your engine, according to Rotax because the oil injection is a demand system you are getting just the right amount for whatever the conditions are. Also you wouldn't want to leave pre-mix sitting for any length of time, how often do you fly the machine? And more importantly, without the injection, you couldn't hope to ever travel anywhere, you won't find 2 stroke premix at any airport! I guess it depends on just HOW you plan to use the machine, there may be NO right answer.
I haven't had ANY problems with mine.
Ben S

 

[Earthboundmisft]

Its a LONG story, been beat to death previously...:violin:

 

[GrantR]

This is an old thread on the topic.https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16185

So what does the lever on the oil pump? vary the ratio between 70:1 and 50:1? If the cable breaks does it run at 50:1 at all power settings?

I run pre mix at 100:1 does that mean I will burn less oil than an oil injection system?

 

[scottessex]

Stop it Grant!
Stop bringing up old oil threads/arguments! !

 

[GrantR]

Stop what? I'm just trying to understand how the oil pump works.

 

[JEFF TIPTON]

Grant go to this website for some oil pump information.

https://www.dansmc.com/2_stroke_oilpump.htm

 

[BEN S]

wether or not the pump is a good thing..

wether or not the pump is a good thing..

doesn't negate my other points, your not going to find "premix" at any place you land other than your own take-off point.
Ben S

 

[GyroRon]

Ben, you take a pint or quart of oil with you when you fly Xcountry and add oil to your gas as you fill up, simple as that.

 

[BEN S]

Ron..

Ron..

I suppose that works if you have room for it. I know there is a lot of "oldsters" who don't trust oil injections systems, mostly the same sort of people who eye suspiciously new-fangeled things like digital cameras and cell phones and such.
But I would figure someone with you experience in the world of dirtbikes would see that they work just fine.
Ben S

 

[Passin' Thru]

I

know there is a lot of "oldsters" who don't trust oil injections systems, mostly the same sort of people who eye suspiciously new-fangeled things like digital cameras and cell phones and such.

Dang Ben, now you be bad -mouthin' ME!
All this new fangled stuff makes me feel like a dinosaur.
Back in the good old Mac days I used to carry oil bungee wrapped to the bow sprit when flying cross country and expected to re-fuel.

My most recient gyro had (and used) oil injection, but I never really felt completely confident with that contraption. I always monitored the oil consumption very closely. :suspicious: But never had a problem.