2-place sport pilot-eligible Gyro for training purposes

markcmiller

Newbie
Joined
Nov 6, 2019
Messages
2
Location
Issaquah, WA
I live in Western Washington, and I’m about to undertake flight training for my sport pilot license. I am looking for a two place Gyro that my instructor can use for training in my local area. He is fully equipped to train at the general aviation level, but his Gyro is not suitable for sport pilot training, and I am looking for something that I can use here. I am shopping in the $10,000 price range.
 

ultracruiser41

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,859
Location
NC
Aircraft
Cavalon, OutBack Tango, Ryan PT 22, JetGyro, Jet Provost, Champ, Radial Rocket Gyro, HummelBird
Total Flight Time
Too many to count
What makes your instructors gyro not suitable for Sport Pilot training??
 

ultracruiser41

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,859
Location
NC
Aircraft
Cavalon, OutBack Tango, Ryan PT 22, JetGyro, Jet Provost, Champ, Radial Rocket Gyro, HummelBird
Total Flight Time
Too many to count
What kind of gyro weighs in at 1330 pounds??
Don’t know if any gyros with an empty weight that high.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
5,061
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
My J-2 grossed at 1600 and A&S 18A at 1800. I think the Sportcopter 2 is 1700. Anything with a Lycoming and two seats could be heavy. Vance's Predator might be near 600 kg but I don't recall the number.
 

DavePA11

Active Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
986
Location
USA
Just take some training in the instructors gyro. You won’t be able to find a two place for $10k.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,816
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
I live in Western Washington, and I’m about to undertake flight training for my sport pilot license. I am looking for a two place Gyro that my instructor can use for training in my local area. He is fully equipped to train at the general aviation level, but his Gyro is not suitable for sport pilot training, and I am looking for something that I can use here. I am shopping in the $10,000 price range.
As someone new to the Federal Aviation Regulations they may be very confusing and daunting.

The maximum takeoff weight for a gyroplane that is legal for a Sport Pilot to fly is 1,320 pounds with some other limitations thrown in.

The gyroplane I train Sport Pilot, Gyroplane students in has a maximum takeoff weight of 1,400 pounds. It means that my Sport Pilot clients can’t solo in it. It does not mean I can’t train them in it.

Most of the Designated Pilot Examiners I use for the proficiency check ride have their own gyroplane that I transition the clients into.

To use their gyroplane for the proficiency check ride you will likely need to travel some distance to them.

If you do not have a pilot certificate you will also need five hours of solo time before you are qualified to take the proficiency check ride.

A single place gyroplane may be used for your solo time.

It is possible to take the proficiency check ride in your single place gyroplane at your location.

Any qualified flight instructor should be familiar with these Federal Aviation Regulations.

His instructor certificate must be specifically for gyroplanes for time with him to count as dual instruction, endorse you for solo flight and to be able to endorse you for your proficiency check ride. Just any flight instructor (fixed wing or helicopter) won’t do.

It is unusual for an airworthy two place gyroplane to sell for less than $20,000.

Please give me a call at (805)680-9523 from nine am to nine pm pacific time for answers to questions about gyroplane training. I am a gyroplane flight instructor and do not charge for phone calls.

I wish you all the best on your gyroplane adventure.
 

Attachments

  • 1s.jpg
    1s.jpg
    94.4 KB · Views: 5

Housedr

Newbie
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
42
Location
Massillon
I live in Western Washington, and I’m about to undertake flight training for my sport pilot license. I am looking for a two place Gyro that my instructor can use for training in my local area. He is fully equipped to train at the general aviation level, but his Gyro is not suitable for sport pilot training, and I am looking for something that I can use here. I am shopping in the $10,000 price range.
Really tough price range for a 2 place.
Even used I have not seen a 2 place that looked airworthy under $20k.
I think there was a Dominator on her for close to 20 and it was a BARGAIN!
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
96
Location
Bryan, Texas
Aircraft
Cessna 140, Stinson 108-1, Culver V, Parsons Trainer
Total Flight Time
1000 hours
As someone new to the Federal Aviation Regulations they may be very confusing and daunting.

The maximum takeoff weight for a gyroplane that is legal for a Sport Pilot to fly is 1,320 pounds with some other limitations thrown in.

The gyroplane I train Sport Pilot, Gyroplane students in has a maximum takeoff weight of 1,400 pounds. It means that my Sport Pilot clients can’t solo in it. It does not mean I can’t train them in it.

Most of the Designated Pilot Examiners I use for the proficiency check ride have their own gyroplane that I transition the clients into.

To use their gyroplane for the proficiency check ride you will likely need to travel some distance to them.

If you do not have a pilot certificate you will also need five hours of solo time before you are qualified to take the proficiency check ride.

A single place gyroplane may be used for your solo time.

It is possible to take the proficiency check ride in your single place gyroplane at your location.

Any qualified flight instructor should be familiar with these Federal Aviation Regulations.

His instructor certificate must be specifically for gyroplanes for time with him to count as dual instruction, endorse you for solo flight and to be able to endorse you for your proficiency check ride. Just any flight instructor (fixed wing or helicopter) won’t do.

It is unusual for an airworthy two place gyroplane to sell for less than $20,000.

Please give me a call at (805)680-9523 from nine am to nine pm pacific time for answers to questions about gyroplane training. I am a gyroplane flight instructor and do not charge for phone calls.

I wish you all the best on your gyroplane adventure.
How did you determine 1400 pounds was your max gross weight? Was this the amount listed on the paper work when you purchased the Predator? Thank you again for the time you take to answer and clarify the many questions which we throw your way.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,816
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
How did you determine 1400 pounds was your max gross weight? Was this the amount listed on the paper work when you purchased the Predator? Thank you again for the time you take to answer and clarify the many questions which we throw your way.
Maximum takeoff weight is a decision the builder of an experimental amateur built gyroplane makes and is entered in the paper work and may be engraved of stamped on the data plate.

You welcome Bill.
 
Last edited:

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,239
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
420
The only things required to be on an E-AB data plate are:
Builder's name
Model designation
Serial number
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
96
Location
Bryan, Texas
Aircraft
Cessna 140, Stinson 108-1, Culver V, Parsons Trainer
Total Flight Time
1000 hours
Maximum takeoff weight is a decision the builder of an experimental amateur built gyroplane makes and is entered in the paper work and may be engraved of stamped on the data plate.

You welcome Bill.
That’s what I thought or understood. Too bad an arbitrary number chosen by the builder is preventing the solo of a good portion of your students in your aircraft currently. On second thought maybe that is a good thing. Some say it is likely the weight limit on LSA ( which I also understand that name is to be dropped ) is likely to go up significantly. This is a link to a report by Dan Johnson.

 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
5,061
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
I have yet to see any NPRM on the MOSAIC initiative so I'm not holding my breath for LSA mass to go up. I hope it has been moved to lower priority compared to fixing the disaster FAA recently made with getting instruction in your own EAB requiring a LODA and treating all instruction as "for compensation " by definition. FAA has developed a knack for giant steps backwards.
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
1,239
Location
Germantown, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
420
In this case of the instructor fiasco, the FAA had to follow what the court found, but they brought it upon themselves by letting that case go to court, trying to enforce their own actual regulations only selectively. They are still pretty much doing that by issuing nearly-automatic LODAs, instead of fixing things properly by amending the FARs in question.
They say it will take four years to made the necessary amendments, but hopefully Congress will quickly cut this particular Gordian knot.
The biggest problem I have with government these days is the executive branch only enforcing laws and their own reguations when they feel like it. Selective enforcement of the law is almost the definition of tyranny.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,816
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
That’s what I thought or understood. Too bad an arbitrary number chosen by the builder is preventing the solo of a good portion of your students in your aircraft currently. On second thought maybe that is a good thing. Some say it is likely the weight limit on LSA ( which I also understand that name is to be dropped ) is likely to go up significantly. This is a link to a report by Dan Johnson.
A good portion of my clients would not be able to train in The Predator if my maximum takeoff weight was 1,320 pounds.

Empty weight: 800 pounds

22 gallons of fuel: 132 pounds

Instructor: 240 pounds

Total without client: 1,172 pounds

Maximum client weight 158 pounds to stay under 1,320 pounds

I train clients up to two hundred sixty pounds with a light fuel load.

If there is a mishap one of the first things the NTSB looks at is takeoff weight.

To the NTSB maximum takeoff weight is not just some arbitrary number.

Based on the conversations I have had with the FAA; they don't want to change the maximum takeoff weight unless there is some justifiable reason.
 

j4flyer

Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
294
Location
Woodland, Ca
I believe the listed weight on an aircraft can be reduced to meet sport pilot (if experimental). I’m not sure the weight can be reduced if it’s a certificated machine like the J-2.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
5,061
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
The J-2 is forever fixed at the certification weight, unless you can get an STC to increase it (that was done when the controllable prop was added).
 
Top