.

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,476
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
Mayfield - add that to your emergency check list. I find just writing a check list for emergencies will help identify what to look for in flight. May not even have to check the list if you took the time to write it and laminate it for when needed. The other area to check for if flying high altitudes is to make sure you readjust the mixture when descending.

Glad you were able to handle it and keep calm enough to make the approach to land safely. I bet you will know instinctively what to do if this happens again now.
Dave
If you ever met Jim you would understand how he’s cool as a cucumber in the gravest of situations. He would be one I would want with me in an emergency. He taught many people to fly gyros which is virtually trying to keep them from killing you. He and my father did it for over 20 years.
 

Rednavle

Newbie
Joined
May 25, 2022
Messages
2
Location
Winchester, MA
Here's a photo of the Magni taken a few days before the crash by one of our Terrafugia guys. (We shared it with the pilot and airport manager as well.)
 

Attachments

  • Magni and Moon.JPG
    Magni and Moon.JPG
    65.8 KB · Views: 14

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,476
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
It is not a rule Mike, but it is taking into account that new gyroplane pilots have their minds full. If you think about gyroplane takeoff, it is the most involved procedure among takeoffs in any 2 seat simple aircraft. Pre-rotate, advance throttle but not too much, release pre-rotator simultaneously pulling back, as you roll balance on mains, keep attitude and allow clean takeoff. Yes, to me, you and others after doing it dozens of times it is simple. To new gyroplane pilots it's not. To older pilots, it's one cough away from skipping a crucial step.
I know of at least 7 gyroplane takeoff accidents, having blade sailing on takeoff. One of the common elements among them. Pre-rotated on taxi way and turned on the runway while blades were spinning.
When Greg was teaching me to fly gyroplanes in the beginning and I already had 3500+ hours on trikes and planes with 2000+ as an active instructor, I was thinking this takeoff crap on gyroplanes is too many things to remember because he started pre-rotating on taxiway. I can only imagine a 70-year-old student. I do not agree with Greg teaching that, so I do not teach that. Can I pre-rotate on hold short and turn on runway now and co-ordinate rotor RPM increase during the turn now. Absolutely. It isn't much of a problem but that is now. At the end of the day the proof of pudding is in the eating. When you see so many accidents specially in older new to gyroplane pilots on takeoff having accidents because they are trying to manage multiple things in their head and get overwhelmed, you have to make it simple.
Do you have to have a clear shot at the runway and do not take it till there is a clear shot. Yes. I'd rather them wait than rush it in and splash.
Abid, the two times I went in one of your machines Greg offered for me to sit up front so I gladly said yes. Then I sat down in the seat and he started explains all the things I was going to have to for us to fly. What this lever is for when you release this one. At this point I had over 300 hrs flying various machines and I felt overwhelmed and asked “if I ride in the back I can still fly some right? I would rather do that” Greg laughed. I said damn I think a 747 has less crap to do to fly. Greg laughed again said no isn’t that bad once you get used to it. Compared to my Dominator is was way to complicated. I enjoyed my flight from the back it flew great. He let shoot a landing the only issue I had was he told me remember as long as your holding rudder do not let that nose wheel touch. I just let the nose wheel off and we did a touch and go. That would take some getting used to. I’m used to free castering nosewheel and being able to land without worrying about making it straight so it doesn’t roll over. I’m sure I could used to all those levers and things you have to do with some instruction but for that short flight I preferred the simplicity of the rear seat. Greg then went out and rung my 670 out. He loved it as far as I know.
 

DavePA11

Super Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,373
Location
USA
I have experienced several of similar situations and always learn from them. That is all I was trying to convey. Fuel mixture readjustment on decent, leaving fuel cap off after refuel, seat belt out the door, oil cooler adjustment, seat slider locked, etc.. not all related to gyros.
 

Mayfield

Gold Supporter
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
1,332
Location
Avondale, Arizona
I have experienced several of similar situations and always learn from them. That is all I was trying to convey. Fuel mixture readjustment on decent, leaving fuel cap off after refuel, seat belt out the door, oil cooler adjustment, seat slider locked, etc.. not all related to gyros.
I agree with you. Thanks Dave.

Jim
 

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Joined
Oct 31, 2011
Messages
4,962
Location
Tampa, FL
Aircraft
AR-1
Total Flight Time
4000+ 560 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes. Pilot Airplane
Abid, the two times I went in one of your machines Greg offered for me to sit up front so I gladly said yes. Then I sat down in the seat and he started explains all the things I was going to have to for us to fly. What this lever is for when you release this one. At this point I had over 300 hrs flying various machines and I felt overwhelmed and asked “if I ride in the back I can still fly some right? I would rather do that” Greg laughed. I said damn I think a 747 has less crap to do to fly. Greg laughed again said no isn’t that bad once you get used to it. Compared to my Dominator is was way to complicated. I enjoyed my flight from the back it flew great. He let shoot a landing the only issue I had was he told me remember as long as your holding rudder do not let that nose wheel touch. I just let the nose wheel off and we did a touch and go. That would take some getting used to. I’m used to free castering nosewheel and being able to land without worrying about making it straight so it doesn’t roll over. I’m sure I could used to all those levers and things you have to do with some instruction but for that short flight I preferred the simplicity of the rear seat. Greg then went out and rung my 670 out. He loved it as far as I know.

Hi Mike
You do not explain things after sitting someone down in front seat. There is something called a ground briefing where that is done before you get in the gyroplane.
AR-1 is fairly simple. Nothing more or less than a Magni. I think Greg has a 914 engine on it and starting and checking procedure for that is the same as any 914 powered aircraft.
Greg follows his own method for pre-rotating etc. which is different than what is in the POH. I do find his method to have more chances for anyone new on the machine to fumble. But that is up to him what method he wants to use. Certainly, he does it well

Of course, no one should be putting the nose wheel down crooked in any aircraft man. That is amateur technique. But if you did put it down, it would try and straighten out but it will put side load on the wheel and assembly which is not great for the aircraft. But in training people do put it down like that and it holds up fine but obviously after training they should not be doing that or they are not ready to be signed off. I have flown a Dominator for 8 hours dual training with Greg. I did not find it any easier than flying or operating an AR-1. Required about the same number of steps approximately and had the same principles as any other gyroplane. I never in training allowed the front wheel on the dom come down crooked so I have no idea how it handles that. I would not want to put that down. I'd go home and smack myself if that is how I landed. I did drop it in one time from about 1 foot because the sight picture is so different sitting so high up and the gyro had shocks and they handled it well. Dom is much more prone to flip over due to high CG vertically and narrower wheel track
 
Last edited:

DavePA11

Super Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,373
Location
USA
Would be nice to pull together a list of those types of oversights or whatever you call them specifically for gyros.
 

MikeBoyette

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
2,476
Location
Plant City, Fl
Aircraft
Dominator
Total Flight Time
200+
Hi Mike
You do not explain things after sitting someone down in front seat. There is something called a ground briefing where that is done before you get in the gyroplane.
AR-1 is fairly simple. Nothing more or less than a Magni. I think Greg has a 914 engine on it and starting and checking procedure for that is the same as any 914 powered aircraft.
Greg follows his own method for pre-rotating etc. which is different than what is in the POH. I do find his method to have more chances for anyone new on the machine to fumble. But that is up to him what method he wants to use. Certainly, he does it well

Of course, no one should be putting the nose wheel down crooked in any aircraft man. That is amateur technique. But if you did put it down, it would try and straighten out but it will put side load on the wheel and assembly which is not great for the aircraft. But in training people do put it down like that and it holds up fine but obviously after training they should not be doing that or they are not ready to be signed off. I have flown a Dominator for 8 hours dual training with Greg. I did not find it any easier than flying or operating an AR-1. Required about the same number of steps approximately and had the same principles as any other gyroplane. I never in training allowed the front wheel on the dom come down crooked so I have no idea how it handles that. I would not want to put that down. I'd go home and smack myself if that is how I landed. I did drop it in one time from about 1 foot because the sight picture is so different sitting so high up and the gyro had shocks and they handled it well. Dom is much more prone to flip over due to high CG vertically and narrower wheel track
It was in prompt to flight. I walked over and said “Hey would you like to fly my new gyro?” He said sure” I told him how about I get a ride in yours. I was used to my gyro and it was very simple I had a mag switch, a throttle,a stick, with a prerotator handle.The only other controls I had to work with were the rudder pedals and heel brakes (which I hate and use with my toes despite my dad trying to get me to stop). To me all of the things he was showing me was overwhelming at the time. I’m sure with a short briefing without a crowd of people around I would have got it. I’m pretty smart and catch on to operating any machine pretty quickly. I just thought it would be easier and safer for me to get in the rear seat and let Greg deal with all of the systems and checks that the front seat pilot has to do. I didn’t mean to make it sound like your gyro was over complicated compared to any other gyro. The 747 comment was just a smart ass joke. My gyro was very simple compared to his that’s all I was trying to say. I flew Scott Lewis’s 914 Dominator and you are correct there are plenty of controls and procedures I had to do in the front seat. The other thing that got me was the controls for throttle were totally different than was I was used to. That is all. My comments were not meant as a criticism just making light of your machine being more up to date and mine being simple. Perhaps I should have taken the time to learn the controls and procedures. I don’t know that my ride would have been any more fun than it was. It was a blast just different than what I was used to. I didn’t mean to offend you my friend. I enjoyed watching someone other than myself flying the crap out of my machine. At that time besides dad the only other person that had flown it was Dick DeGraw and they both were very conservative. I just glad he didn’t break my nose wheel off lol. He came back with a smile on his face and said that it was a beast with the 670 on it. I thanked him for flying my machine and taking me for a ride in his machine. Once again I was just busting chops hope I didn’t offend you my friend.
 
Top