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chrisk

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Messages
408
Location
Round Rock TX
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Magni M24, Turbo Mooney 231
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1000
Yes, five of the participants of this thread are CFIs, and I am not. But when Inquiring Mind posted his two landing videos, over 5 days not one CFI spoke up about his fast and flat landings. But I did. Since then, I've received a running, nit-picking, pious harrangue from you in that thread and in this one, not to mention personal insults in the Watsonville thread. Are you OK?
Not precisely true. I believe I said "And as others have said, you are going rather fast."
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
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stopped caring at 1000

DavePA11

Super Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Messages
1,375
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USA
DIGEST OF CROSSWIND LANDING COMMENTS
(There is much diverse opinion here, which I wished to "mine.")

#7, Vance • "What were the winds?"

#17, Inquiring Mind • "gust of left crosswind "

#19, Andino • "just land into the wind, even if completely runway widthwise"

#21, Vance • "left rudder before touch down that was likely caused by a cross wind from the right" (even though IM said it was from the left)
"Before touch down the centerline is maintained with the cyclic and the yaw is managed with the rudder to keep the gyroplane aligned with the direction of travel." (this is wing-low technique)

#29, Andino • some general comments on wing-low

#31, Vance • "I use the cyclic to maintain runway centerline when landing a gyroplane." (this is wing-low technique)

#32, Andino • points out that Vance did not accede to IM's statement of "gust of left crosswind "

#33, Vance • "I reported what I saw in the video and that is still what I see." (maintains his opinion on crosswind from right)

#37, Inquiring Mind • "I now think the whole thing should have been corrected with left stick and right rudder, with no power application." (this is wing-low technique, and Vance "Likes" IM's post)

#42, Philbennett • video of crosswind landing with a crabbed short final and wing-low touchdown

#43, Andino • "confused why Vance would have liked a 'left stick and right rudder' response to what Vance believes was a right crosswind."

#45, Andino • prefers wing-low approach vs. crabbed approach

#47, BEN S • questions any need for a gyro crosswind landing

#48, Philbennett • comments of risk of into-crosswind approach on the active runway

#50, BEN S • explains his into-crosswind technique

#57, WaspAir • "I always touched down into the wind, and never used the "wing low" method...If there is enough crosswind to notice, there is enough to land no-roll into that wind."

#59, Philbennett • "I don't know of a crosswind that allows you to run out of authority where the pilot wished to be flying in the first place."

#85, Philbennett • "IMO landing on a huge piece of prepared marked runway and accepting a crosswind is better than attempting something to a small unprepared taxiway with a host of additional risk factors."

#96, Vance • "If the rudder pedals are linked to the nose wheel then in a [wing-low] cross wind landing the tire will not be pointed in the direction of travel when the nose wheel touches down because in flight the rudder manages yaw."

#101, Andino • recommends that gyro pilots be able to accomplish both types of landings (into-crosswind and wing-low)

#102, Vance • "With a near zero roll landing in a gyroplane I can touch down on the centerline pointed directly into the wind even with a significant cross wind component." (this is inherently paradoxical)
"I recommend that my clients increase their wind limits, gust spread and cross wind component limitations gradually because a little more wind can have a lot more effect on the aircraft and making the timing of the flare more critical." (this is wing-low technique)

#103, Andino • explains his wing-low approach to gauge landing conditions
Go fly. You have too much time on your hands.
 

Sv.grainne

Super Member
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Kerrville, Texas
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This is a common idea Bobby.
In my opinion based on my experience with a wind from the left the gyroplane is trying to weathervane into the wind (nose left) so this is corrected with right pedal.

With a wind from the left the gyroplane is being blown to the right so I use left cyclic to stay over the centerline while still in flight.

Once I am on the ground it is often left pedal because the wind is trying to blow the gyroplane to the right.

In the air she steers with the cyclic and on the ground she steers with the pedals.

Once stopped I like to go full forward with the cyclic and leave left to right with the rotor near flight rpm alone.

Once the rotor rpm drops below around 200 rotor rpm at full forward full left or right cyclic works for me.

Some CFIs leave the cyclic full back until the rotor is below 200 rotor rpm because they feel that is a more stable attitude.
Thanks for that, I was assuming that the Gyro would Yaw a bit to the right.
 

Andino

Active Member
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near London, U.K.
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Not so. Check cfi Mayfield's same day post # 5 in this thread, before you posted anything, and which you 'liked":
Not precisely true. I believe I said "And as others have said, you are going rather fast."
WaspAir, since I embedded the link to his August 7 "Magni M-24, practice landings" thread, I was clearly speaking of those videos, not this thread.

chrisk, yes, others (including CFIs) posted, but not for 5 days and not before I first commented "too fast; too flat" on August 12.

As I wrote in my post I do not endorse "wing low" landings for gyroplanes as the wide speed range makes them impractical.
And you're still not addressing what I wrote:
If a runway has a crosswind, there are only two touchdowns which avoid putting sideload on the gear: turning into the wind, and "wing-low." If one's (non-sideload) touchdown was not directly into the wind, then it must have been wing-low. It matters not if some people term wing-low a fixed-wing technique, as gyros can and often do use it.
I'm talking about touchdowns, not approaches. (Approach crabbed, I don't care.) If one has a left crosswind blowing across the active runway, one can only turn into it for the touchdown, or (and this is "wing-low") apply left stick/right rudder for the touchdown. For a non-sideload touchdown, those are the only two choices for a student or low-time gyro pilot. You not like the term "wing-low" for a sideslip, cross-controls, left stick/right rudder touchdown in a left crosswind, but that does not change what it is.

Nobody else but you seemed to believe that in this thread's first video, the crosswind was from the right (even though his recovery landing was clearly blown right from the left). When Inquiring Mind corrected you with his first-hand account, you did not explicitly agree. Now, however, you've have slunk away from your right crosswind opinion, and joined the left crosswind discussion, hoping that nobody would notice.


I am sorry you feel persecuted; it is not my intention.
That is difficult to credit, especially with your gratuitous personal insults in the Watsonville thread.

Nobody else but you objected to (or seemed confused by) my "You are landing that M-24 like a Cirrus SR20 pilot " similie.

Nobody else but you quibbled over my "too fast" observation because "the surface is approached during a landing the speed appears to increase in a video".

You tried to dismiss the risk of his turning over from a non-Sportcopter degree of free castering nosewheel during sideloaded or yawed landings, even though others did not:
This needs to get corrected now or he may have a flip over waiting to happen.

In fact, your first post about his August 7 thread oddly bordered on the reassuring:
Lots of flight instructors do touch and goes like in the video.

In my opinion all of the landings in the video are to FAA practical test standards for sport pilot, gyroplane.
Would any CFI have signed off an applicant with those flat landings? Would you have?

I don’t like to touch the nose wheel first in a gyroplane.
Nosewheel landings are not your preference? Is that what you tell your students? How about "never land on the nosewheel"?

I was the first to express alarm over his August 7 landing videos, and you've quibbled relentlessly with me about it. I find that strange.
 
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Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
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Tampa, FL
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AR-1
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I like nosewheel landings. It makes people buy expensive parts
 

Andino

Active Member
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near London, U.K.
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many FW airplanes + various autogyros
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>1000 hours
I like nosewheel landings. It makes people buy expensive parts
lol, finally, some real candor! That reminds me of a comic whose dad was a dentist. "4 out of 5 dentists recommend chewing sugarless gum. Not my dad. He was that 5th dentist, and said that sugarless gum was bad for business! "
 
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Greg Vos

Active Member
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May 26, 2019
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577
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Cape Town
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R44/22 H269/300 MD 500 Magni (all); Xenon RST; DTA; ELA; MTO Trojan
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Stoped counting at 2000
No wonder AG pilots are so obsessed with "balancing on the mains" - because of wrong choice of the AG in design of the front wheel.
I don't know of a single Magni instructor, who teaches "balancing on the mains". I guess it is because all Magni gyros have negative caster front wheel.
What !,, I’m a Magni instructor..teaching a student to balance on the mains is one of the most important tasks, ( in all gyro) once the pilot can demonstrate that ..throw in a small crosswind to boot ..he has a skill set that he will grow and make him a safe pilot..I feel to many times students do not enjoy the wheel balance as it’s quite taxing for a new pilot, it’s that same with a helicopter once you have cracked the hover you have control of the aircraft
 
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