.

[Inquiring Mind]

.

 

[Andino]

You are landing that M-24 like a Cirrus SR20 pilot: too fast at touchdown and too flat (NW touching with mains). If you're going to land so fast, at least flare more and keep the NW up. My 2 pence. Good videography, though!

 

[Inquiring Mind]

You are landing that M-24 like a Cirrus SR20 pilot:

Should I take it as a complement?

too fast at touchdown and too flat (NW touching with mains). If you're going to land so fast, at least flare more and keep the NW up. My 2 pence.

I feel most comfortable and least stressful to land that way.

Good videography, though!

Thank you.

 

[WaspAir]

I feel most comfortable and least stressful to land that way.

Don't get comfortable.

In an aircraft that cannot stall, extra energy is merely potential danger. Get rid of all the energy you can while still in the air so you have little with which to cope when you touch down. Gyros are not designed for high speed ground operations, and aren't particularly safe if you do it.

Low speed short ground rolls should be the goal, not emulating airplane landings.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

Don't get comfortable.

'I don't.

Low speed short ground rolls should be the goal,

How low?

 

[wolfy]

0 feet long if you can. To do 0 feet means you have loaded the rotor up the most in a hard flare, a loaded rotor means more gyroscopic force ie more stable and of course 0 ground speed.

wolfy

 

[BEN S]

I watched it and subconsciously pushed myself back in the seat a bit...scary.

 

[JETLAG03]

1st touchdown your front wheel squeaked twice, so did my bum !
2nd touchdown the front wheel touched down first
3rd all three together
4th landed on mains first 👍

I am still a very very low hours autogyro pilot but my instructor would not have been happy with any of those landings.

Not to say I am good, I have made some real sh*t landings, closer to crashes than landings but I have friends at my airfield who are not frightened of telling me when I have done badly.

Good luck

phil

 

[DavePA11]

Its good to get constructive feedback. Prevents accidents if used constructively.

 

[WaspAir]

How low?

My suggestion is that after a good landing you will need to add power to get up to taxi speed. You won't need brakes except possibly for steering, depending on your nosewheel type. For no wind conditions, try for a fast walk or less. With noticeable wind, try to do zero ground speed. With practice, this is not difficult for most gyro designs.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

My suggestion is that after a good landing you will need to add power to get up to taxi speed.

I asked about touch-down speed - how low should it be. After touch-down I can stop the gyro completely right away by pulling stick back.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

0 feet long if you can.

I can't.

 

[Mayfield]

With every gyro I have flown it is possible to touch down at essentially zero ground speed under most conditions.

I don't know if you have any fixed wing experience, but if you do, try to make every landing a "full stall" landing. That is, hold the aircraft off the ground with increasing back stick until the aircraft is incapable of flight. At some point the aircraft will settle to the landing surface at a really slow forward speed. With any appreciable headwind, it will appear that you have touched down with no forward speed.

If I could make a perfect gyro landing (I think I made one in 1976 and another in 2004) the throttle would hit the idle stop, the ground speed would be zero, the stick would be at the aft stop, and the wheels would go "squeak" all at the same time.

Grove aircraft has a really neat Kinetic energy calculator that we can "mis-use" to give us an idea of the energy increase that occurs when we touch down just a little fast. https://groveaircraft.com/wbproducts.html

Change the number of wheels with brakes to 1. That way you will be able to see total kinetic energy. Enter your typical landing weight and some speed. For the sake of argument, enter 10 knots. Read the total energy. Double the speed to 20 knots. See what happens to the energy.

From the kinetic energy standpoint alone, it's a really good idea to touch down as slowly as possible.

 

[TyroGyro]

Try NOT to land.

Get down to 2 feet.

Let her float, gradually reducing the power.

As she sinks in, RAISE the nose,and smoothly remove any remaining power.

 

[Vance]

You are landing that M-24 like a Cirrus SR20 pilot: too fast at touchdown and too flat (NW touching with mains). If you're going to land so fast, at least flare more and keep the NW up. My 2 pence. Good videography, though!

My recollection is that a Cirrus SR20 has a stall speed of 57kts with flaps.

In my opinion the touchdown speed shown in the video for the Magni is much less than 57kts.

It is my observation that as the surface is approached during a landing the speed appears to increase in a video.

The same thing happens to me visually if I am not looking all the way down the runway.

The landings in the video appear smooth and consistent at less than ten knots of ground speed.

I don’t know what the wind is doing so I lack the information for what the indicated airspeed at touchdown is.

I don’t like to touch the nose wheel first in a gyroplane.

I prefer coming to a complete stop after landing before commencing the takeoff roll.

Lots of flight instructors do touch and goes like in the video.

In my opinion all of the landings in the video are to FAA practical test standards for sport pilot, gyroplane. Without reference to the airspeed indicator I am not able to determine the accuracy of the approach speed. The target indicated airspeed is based on what is in the pilots operating handbook.

B. TASK: NORMAL AND CROSSWIND APPROACH AND LANDING REFERENCES: FAA-H-8083-21; Gyroplane Flight Manual. NOTE: If a calm wind weather condition exists, the applicant’s knowledge of the crosswind elements shall be evaluated through oral testing; otherwise, a crosswind approach and landing shall be demonstrated.

Objective. To determine that the applicant:

1. Exhibits knowledge of the elements related to normal and crosswind approach and landing.

2. Considers the wind conditions, landing surface, and obstacles.

3. Selects a suitable touchdown point.

4. Establishes and maintains a stabilized approach at the recommended airspeed with gust correction factor applied, ±5 knots.

5. Establishes and maintains proper ground track with crosswind correction, as necessary.

6. Remains aware of the possibility of wind shear and/or wake turbulence.

7. Makes smooth, timely, and correct control application during the flare and touchdown.

8. Touches down smoothly, at a reduced forward airspeed beyond and within 200 feet of a specified point with no appreciable drift, and with the longitudinal axis aligned with the intended landing path.

9. Maintains crosswind correction and directional control throughout the approach and landing sequence.

 

[Inquiring Mind]

Try NOT to land.

I've already thanked you for that advise in the past. :

https://www.rotaryforum.com/threads/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-t-offs-landings-video-of-one-training-session.1145498/post-1156493

My landings become much easier for me after I started trying "NOT to land" as you suggested.

 

[Vance]

Try NOT to land.

Get down to 2 feet.

Let her float, gradually reducing the power.

As she sinks in, RAISE the nose,and smoothly remove any remaining power.

Because of power-pitch-yaw coupling with most gyroplanes I recommend leaving the throttle alone from 20 feet above the ground to touchdown.

After all wheels have touched down bring the power to idle.

 

[DavePA11]

When I was taking lessons on M24 this spring we always had a very small amount of forward speed. I’ll have to ask if that is normal for the M24, but assume IM would know now too. How many landings and hours do you have now IM in gyros? Must be couple hundred now?

 

[Abid]

The landings in the video appear smooth and consistent at less than ten knots of ground speed.

The problem is in at least 2 of those landings and definitely in one he did nose wheel touchdown before the main. One might have been a 3 pointer. Good for a taildragger but terrible in anything else. This needs to get corrected now or he may have a flip over waiting to happen. Not trying to pick on anyone but if I was the instructor I would not have signed him off for solo yet. 3 pointer landings are simply a no no in any aircraft except taildraggers.

 

[Mayfield]

With every gyro I have flown it is possible to touch down at essentially zero ground speed under most conditions.

I don't know if you have any fixed wing experience, but if you do, try to make every landing a "full stall" landing. That is, hold the aircraft off the ground with increasing back stick until the aircraft is incapable of flight. At some point the aircraft will settle to the landing surface at a really slow forward speed. With any appreciable headwind, it will appear that you have touched down with no forward speed.

If I could make a perfect gyro landing (I think I made one in 1976 and another in 2004) the throttle would hit the idle stop, the ground speed would be zero, the stick would be at the aft stop, and the wheels would go "squeak" all at the same time.

Grove aircraft has a really neat Kinetic energy calculator that we can "mis-use" to give us an idea of the energy increase that occurs when we touch down just a little fast. https://groveaircraft.com/wbproducts.html

Change the number of wheels with brakes to 1. That way you will be able to see total kinetic energy. Enter your typical landing weight and some speed. For the sake of argument, enter 10 knots. Read the total energy. Double the speed to 20 knots. See what happens to the energy.

From the kinetic energy standpoint alone, it's a really good idea to touch down as slowly as possible.

I don't mind replying to my own post. As I get older, I often talk to myself.

Using the above calculator, in addition to the scenario of doubling touchdown speed, also try a scenario where the touchdown speed is the same, but the weight is doubled. It will drive home the point that the increase of kinetic energy caused by an increase in speed is much worse than an increase of weight.

The moral is: Touch down as slow as possible; every time!

Jim