AirGyro AG915 N4446S now has its airworthiness certificate, too.

John:
Here is from Rotax 915iS installation manual Rev 3. LED Lamps for warning lamps on Lane A and Lane B in the fuse box. I believe it shows the resistors right in. Were your lamps setup by the manufacturer or you guys there in Ca?
 

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Thank you Abid. It was in the KIT from the manufacture!!!

So Ron just paid to chase ghosts for 3 days because Airgyro, in Utha sent LED indicator lights instead of light bulbs!!!
That not right?
If I had done that I would pay the labor to chase the ghost I provided in the kit.
Monday we will call all 4 of Rotax friends that tried to help for free.
Not to blast them in any way but give them the symptoms again.
And the solution:
  1. Check if they are bulbs or LED's.
  2. If you cannot take the indicator light apart. Check it in the dark and see if it only dims and never goes out.
  3. If you wish to use LED will send the two links of Abid's.
 
The only silver lining I learned so much from Raul.
We checked everything!!!
 
Thank you Abid. It was in the KIT from the manufacture!!!

So Ron just paid to chase ghosts for 3 days because Airgyro, in Utha sent LED indicator lights instead of light bulbs!!!
That not right?
If I had done that I would pay the labor to chase the ghost I provided in the kit.
Monday we will call all 4 of Rotax friends that tried to help for free.
Not to blast them in any way but give them the symptoms again.
And the solution:
  1. Check if they are bulbs or LED's.
  2. If you cannot take the indicator light apart. Check it in the dark and see if it only dims and never goes out.
  3. If you wish to use LED will send the two links of Abid's.

Hi John:
Well if it was in a kit and you guys did the wiring harness, I would say that its the builder who should know or figure out the resistors for LEDs are standard practice. After all, the whole purpose of Experimental AB is to research and learn. In wiring, its always best to involve some experienced people. Many builders actually get the wiring done for them by facilities or avionics mechanics. I guess certain amount of experience or knowledge may be being assumed.
Here is a video from DigiKey also about the LED resistor needed for a given LED and how to get it. You do need to know the LED specs
But getting back to what your issue really is; I think the fact that there is a disconnect in CANBUS communication daisy chain before the termination. It would be some effort but not a lot to check that that the HIC A and HIC B pin outs from Rotax iS harness to your DB connector on miniDAQU from Kanardia are correct using a continuity check. Second one side of HIC A and HIC B are done by Rotax but the other side of the plug is done by the builder. If the pin outs are not carefully kept the same, you simply will not have any data passing from the ECU forward. Also the pins on Rotax $10 HIC connector are finicky. Without the right Molex tools that cost 100's of $$, you are unlikely to get good crimps and insertion of pins into the plug and that may also be an issue.
Basically I doubt the problem is that your LED lights are causing X on your Kanardia EMSIS EFIS and making your engine run rough.
The lights are just not correctly wired with resistors so their color and brightness are off and yes that should be corrected but it will still leave you with the problem. The problem is that your HIC wiring in CANBUS daisy chain has simply not been correct this whole time. That is what I suspect.
 
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What EFIS are you using?
 
I have not built a newer Airgyro yet, I have built a few or rebuilt a few older Xenons, I have found the factory reticulation and installation to be really substandard with horrid workmanship ( this is the RC models)
The Radac and its bus connections is poor and the way that they have done things has left me underwhelmed
I come from an electrical engineering background and it will be fair to say that they certainly do not follow standard best practice installation principles.

despite all the poor workmanship issues I have found in Xenons over the last 6 years of working on them, they are still the peach of the fruits rewarding flight after flight … so in my opinion it’s the Bentley of Gyroplanes

I have not yet had the pleasure of flying the AR range as we have non here locally so I am not comparing it,
building The Airgyo from the get go will afford you the opportunity to change a number of things that the polish have not thought out yet, I was suprised as the Polish have built some really good firearms, seems they simply battle with science of electric or electronics


once your sorted you will forget all these thorns 👍
 
Hi John:
Well if it was in a kit and you guys did the wiring harness, I would say that its the builder who should know or figure out the resistors for LEDs are standard practice. After all, the whole purpose of Experimental AB is to research and learn. In wiring, its always best to involve some experienced people. Many builders actually get the wiring done for them by facilities or avionics mechanics. I guess certain amount of experience or knowledge may be being assumed.
Here is a video from DigiKey also about the LED resistor needed for a given LED and how to get it. You do need to know the LED specs
But getting back to what your issue really is; I think the fact that there is a disconnect in CANBUS communication daisy chain before the termination. It would be some effort but not a lot to check that that the HIC A and HIC B pin outs from Rotax iS harness to your DB connector on miniDAQU from Kanardia are correct using a continuity check. Second one side of HIC A and HIC B are done by Rotax but the other side of the plug is done by the builder. If the pin outs are not carefully kept the same, you simply will not have any data passing from the ECU forward. Also the pins on Rotax $10 HIC connector are finicky. Without the right Molex tools that cost 100's of $$, you are unlikely to get good crimps and insertion of pins into the plug and that may also be an issue.
Basically I doubt the problem is that your LED lights are causing X on your Kanardia EMSIS EFIS and making your engine run rough.
The lights are just not correctly wired with resistors so their color and brightness are off and yes that should be corrected but it will still leave you with the problem. The problem is that your HIC wiring in CANBUS daisy chain has simply not been correct this whole time. That is what I suspect.
I misspoke if I said the engine is still running rough on mag checks. The mag drops are the same since the 2nd day when Raul rewired it and added grounds. He found a couple that was not correct, once he fixed those no more mag drop issue.
Since then the EIFS only told us to land and some displays turn to X's!! Raul will not fly it that way.

The wiring harness came installed by the manufacture with bundles zip-tied to the length they needed to be but no connectors on the ends. Except for the LED lights. They had ends.
All the wires were labeled.

Ron paid an A&P $800 a day to wire it.
Hard to blame him because the only wires that had ends connectors were these two lights and the two other LED lights wires. If you look at the picture of the LED you will see the width is much smaller than all the rest of the wire connectors anywhere on the gyro.
How was the wiring A&P supposed to know to cut them off and add resistors, when the manufacturer only had those attached?
 
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I misspoke if I said the engine is still running rough on mag checks. The mag drops are the same since the 2nd day when Raul rewired it and added grounds. He found a couple that was not correct, once he fixed those no more bag drop issue.
Since then the EIFS only told us to land and some displays turn to X's!! Raul will not fly it that way.

The wiring harness came installed by the manufacture with bundles zip-tied to the length they needed to be but no connectors on the ends.
All the wires were labeled.

Ron paid an A&P $800 a day to wire it.
Hard to blame him because the only wires that had ends connectors were these two lights and the two other LED lights wires. If you look at the picture of the LED you will see the width is much smaller than all the rest of the wire connectors anywhere on the gyro.
How was the wiring A&P supposed to know to cut them off and add resistors, when the manufacturer only had those attached?

Well I can tell you whether its Argon or AirGyro or Tercel, you should not rely on Polish wiring or fuel system design or track and balancing of rotor or even hardware installation at some places. Sorry to just lay it out there. Do these things yourselves and just buy a pure kit and ask for lower price. You'd probably be better off from all I can see and tell. Was the A&P familiar with Rotax iS system wiring? Had he ever done an iS (912iS or 915iS) engine wiring before? It would help greatly if he was familiar with an iS engine wiring a little. Rotax manuals are what I call in Germlish nor English.

Your EMS is Kanardia EMSIS I believe (going by what Raul said to me on the phone the other day) and it uses a remote data acquisition unit called miniDAQU. Magni uses Kanardia with their EMS unit called Digi. ELA uses EMSIS EMS.
 
I misspoke if I said the engine is still running rough on mag checks. The mag drops are the same since the 2nd day when Raul rewired it and added grounds. He found a couple that was not correct, once he fixed those no more mag drop issue.
Since then the EIFS only told us to land and some displays turn to X's!! Raul will not fly it that way.

The wiring harness came installed by the manufacture with bundles zip-tied to the length they needed to be but no connectors on the ends. Except for the LED lights. They had ends.
All the wires were labeled.

Ron paid an A&P $800 a day to wire it.
Hard to blame him because the only wires that had ends connectors were these two lights and the two other LED lights wires. If you look at the picture of the LED you will see the width is much smaller than all the rest of the wire connectors anywhere on the gyro.
How was the wiring A&P supposed to know to cut them off and add resistors, when the manufacturer only had those attached?
800 USDper day….who wants me to come over and do some maintenance work? I will Chuck in flight instructions as well geeeesssus in my currency this is good money
 
PS: What I do know.
I know enough to read or create schematics and how to test them for devices I need but I am no expert.

The voltage is different between using a lightbulb in a circuit compared to a diode in the circuit. A LED is a Light Omitting DIODE.
If the Efis is looking for the voltage of a lightbulb (which is more like a resistor) in the circuit it will not see it when the LED goes dim. The diode eats up some of the voltage to light it as dim. They are not the same voltage the computer is looking for.
This does make sense if I wrote the program for the EFIS too.

But have to see it to believe it after 3 days of failure.
Does this Led assembly have an internal current limiting resistor? What is the rated voltage for the light. Suspect that the assy is probably for a 5vdc application and you are using it in a 12v application so the on/off state required for the RDAC is not being met.
 
Greg the EFIS is EMIS.
Bobby, I'm an idiot and threw away the boxes the lights came in.
Added resistors and the light now work.
We had a Rotax A&P trained in Germany to bring his Rotax dongle and found the mass a flow sensor was producing a fault.
He just added dielectric grease to ALL of the sensor connectors and it was fixed.
 
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Where can I order the $1K Rotax dongle for a 915????
Without it, you have no clue what sensors are causing faults.
 
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Where can I order the $1K Rotax dongle for a 915????
Without it, you have no clue what sensors are causing faults.

You can order it from Lockwood Aviation or one of the other service centers.
However, you also need the software on the laptop to interface. They won't let you download the software unless you have taken iS training from them. So ...
 
You can order it from Lockwood Aviation or one of the other service centers.
However, you also need the software on the laptop to interface. They won't let you download the software unless you have taken iS training from them. So ...
That sucks, but Thank you for the answer, Bro!!
Gee's Brian taught me how to run his on the ARGON. It tells you the warning and faults on a time-stamped list. Not hard.

Oh, bother... more time to get trained?
That training and thus the dongle will have to wait. Flying first.
 
Greg the EFIS is EMIS.
Bobby, I'm an idiot and threw away the boxes the lights came in.
Added resistors and the light now work.
We had a Rotax A&P trained in Germany to bring his Rotax dongle and found the mass a flow sensor was producing a fault.
He just added dielectric grease to ALL of the sensor connectors and it was fixed.
I think you mean electric conductive grease.
Dielectric grease insulates connectors.

smiles,
Charles
 
I think you mean electric conductive grease.
Dielectric grease insulates connectors.

smiles,
Charles
Gee's he had us buy dielectric grease.
He said it was the grit that held the pins in contact.
The A&P gooped it on both sides of the sensor connectors.
Electric grease could sort out the other pins in the connector??? Right?
But now you have me concerned and better check with Brian did we misunderstand dielectric grease and he did not notice?
 
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Dielectric grease is good to use on electrical connectors because it helps the contacts connect without itself conducting electricity (which could risk a short).
"Silicone greases are electrically insulating and are often applied to electrical connectors, particularly those containing rubber gaskets, as a means of sealing and protecting the connector. In this context they are often referred to as dielectric grease."
 
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Gee's he had us buy dielectric grease.
He said it was the grit that held the pins in contact.
The A&P gooped it on both sides of the sensor connectors.
Electric grease could sort out the other pins in the connector??? Right?
But now you have me concerned and better check with Brian did we misunderstand dielectric grease and he did not notice?
Mistakenly I thought you used it on the mating surfaces of spade type connectors.
Should not get on mating surfaces of multi-pin connectors but can help with sealing connectors.

smiles,
Charles
 
Mistakenly I thought you used it on the mating surfaces of spade type connectors.
Should not get on mating surfaces of multi-pin connectors but can help with sealing connectors.

smiles,
Charles
Oh, that makes sense!
As Abid suggested it was probably the CAN pin connectors. He was right.
I checked them over and over again they all seem to plug in tightly. No pins were loose that I could discern.
Stupid rookie I did not know to use dielectric grease to use the grit to tighten the pins up.
It worked the mass airflow sensor started working.
 
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