Thunder Over the Valley Air Show.

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Staff member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
18,363
Location
Santa Maria, California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2600+ in rotorcraft
I will be flying The Predator in the Thunder Over the Valley Air Show August 27th and 28th at the Santa Maria airport, SMX.

The announcer is going to try to do a better, more informed job of promoting the act this year.

I have been asked to give him some information on the aircraft and what I am doing so he can get the crowd more involved.

I would be grateful for input. The first bit is about The Predator and Autogiros and the second is taken from my knee board with explanations about why I am doing things.

I would be grateful for input on how to enhance the description or what I might do to better demonstrate The Predators capabilities.

I have been asked by the FAA to keep banks less than 60 degrees and not to spin her.

I do not have smoke.

When demonstrating slow flight I slow until she begins to descend and when I cut the power she turns into the wind and begins a vertical descent with a little bit of a tail slide.

The air show box is 1,000 feet deep by 1,200 long.

We will spend the rest of the day taking pictures of kids in the pilot’s seat.

Take off on 30 and climb at 50kts

HS to E box at 400 feet

W 45kts best angle of climb across box just to show she can fly

R 180 to E HS flight to end box to show she is not slow

L 180 turn climb full power W to get some altitude

R slow 180 S turns to E to show she is maneuverable

L 180 W slow flight, pull power, recovery 300’ to demonstrate slow flight and to show what happens when the engine stops

Figure eight at show center finish E to demonstrate maneuverability

L 180, slow flight to end of box W in case they missed the slow flight

Climb L spiral inside box to 800’ to demonstrate maneuverability

720 degree steep spiral full power to remind them that she flies.

Exit east and land

Taxi to air show

Thank you, Vance
 
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I'll be there Vance, perhaps selling hot dogs or working a gate, but regardless, I'll look forward to your show. Thanks for the heads-up, and congratulations on becoming part of the show.

Jerry
 
Hey Vance, I know a few things about how to build and install a smoker kit! :)
Kudos to your airshow routine, you are a great ambassador for the sport.
 
Help wanted

Help wanted

Thank you Jerry,

I enjoyed flying in the air show a lot.

The kids seem to be drawn to the Predator and Ed is good at getting them to keep away from the switches.

Thank you Scott, I suspect at some point I will need to have smoke. If I get my way I will be flying in more air shows with Mariah Gale.

I was hoping to get some advice on what to tell the announcer or how to demonstrate the capabilities of a gyroplane. The Predator was very well received last time. I have flown her in 3 air shows and been the sort of warm up for two others. I would like to continue to improve.

I have been practicing my power off vertical descent and the timing seems very important as the ground seems to rush up to greet me. There is no place in the air show box to take off again if I land so I am limited there. If I do it high enough to be comfortable it is not in the box.

I like the spiral of death but the fellow from the FSDO is not comfortable with it. He feels it is an aerobatic maneuver and would require an aerobatic license and a parachute.

I am looking for a way to demonstrate precision flying but there is nothing to reference to so everything I have tried so far has fallen flat. If I get too close to the ground and screw up it would take a long time to get her out and mess up the show.

Most of the spectators at the show have never seen a gyroplane fly except for mine so they are pleased to see her do things I don’t normally do.

Thank you, Vance
 
Vance this a little crude but should give you some ideas.

Ladies and Gentlemen: coming up next is Vance Breese and his one of a kind Gyrocpter called the PREDATOR.

Vance is a former motorcycle racer and Bonneville record holder turned pilot after crashing the Streamliner at Bonnyville at about 265 mph and tumbled end over end when the parachute came out but did not open. As a result of this accident Vance lost sight in left eye and suffered extensive brain damage. With much help and encouragement from friends, Vance received his Private Pilot gyrocopter license.

A Gyrocopter is a type of rotorcraft that generates its lift via the principle of autorotation where the propeller at the back powers the gyro forward, and the rotors on top turn automatically as air rushes through their underside.

As these rotors turn they create the vertical lift that is required to keep the gyrocopter in the air. One of the real strengths of the gyro is that this autorotation means that if the engine stalls the rotors are still turning, allowing the pilot to gently guide the gyrocopter towards a safe landing area.

Vance is starting his takeoff now and is accelerating to demonstrate a short field takeoff and climbing to 400 feet. Vance is turning and will across the box giving you a good look at his unusually aircraft in flight.

Vance is turning around and accelerating the aircraft to the end of the box.

Again he is turning the aircraft and climbing to gain more altitude and his slowing the aircraft and performing S turns to demonstrate the maneuverability of the gyrocopter.

Vance is now turning the aircraft reducing power and demonstrating slow flight and continuing to reduce the engine to idle, simulating an engine out, to show you that the aircraft can still be controlled.

Continuing into a figure 8 and slow flight for one last look continuing into a spiraling climb back to 800 feet following into a 720 decent to land.

While taxiing in.
Ladies and gentlemen the PREDATOR will be on display this afternoon for photo opportunities And Vance will be available to answer questions.

Perhaps Ed might consent to being the commentator.
 
...I like the spiral of death but the fellow from the FSDO is not comfortable with it. He feels it is an aerobatic maneuver and would require an aerobatic license and a parachute...

Vance, I believe there's a discrepancy between FAR 1.1, which describes aerobatics as “an intentional maneuver involving an abrupt change in an aircraft’s attitude, an abnormal attitude, or abnormal acceleration, not necessary for normal flight,” and the FAA's internal guidance, which appears to want a parachute for anything over 60º in roll or pitch axes.

This stuff is all pretty grey. The "death spiral" could also be a routine emergency technique for maintaining or increasing rotor RPM before landing in a confined area. Putting the nose down steeply is what you do if the noise stops. Neither requires being "abrupt." Since acceleration is measured in Gs, and a gyroplane can only make about 2.5 Gs in flight no matter what you do to it, this all seems like they're applying fixed-wing limitations without considering gyroplane capabilities.

If you want to develop a less restricted routine for Mariah Gale, there are steps you could take. One would be to make sure your operating limitations are issued with a specific allowance for aerobatic maneuvers. You'll have to request it, and include testing to the expanded envelope in your Phase I. I don't have the FAR reference handy, but I believe experimentals are not allowed to perform aerobatic maneuvers unless it is specifically added to the op lims. For a gyros, you might have to get something worded along the lines of, "any maneuver not requiring sustained negative G."

The other thing would be to take the next step personally and get an aerobatic competency evaluation. The FAA didn't have enough demand for this to make it worth training its own inspectors, so it now issues a letter based on recommendations from groups such as the International Council of Air Shows. I don't know what the process is, but it would probably start with educating ICAS about why a 90º bank in a gyro still doesn't exceed 2.5 Gs, and why a "death spiral" isn't a name reflective of the actual risk involved. The organization has lots of resources available here.

Jim Vanek has been through this process to get approval to do loops and rolls at airshows. He's told me he's required to document a certain number of repetitions in a practice area within 90 days before a show, and he's limited to a floor of 800' AGL during those maneuvers. Less aggressive maneuvers might be allowed down to the deck.

From my limited experience announcing at airshows, I can tell you that most spectators will be holding their breath and clutching loved ones while watching to see if you survive the dead-stick landing, while they'll be chattering away and not paying attention while you do the stuff that's really difficult or risky.

A couple of years when I announced for Jim's loop/roll routine at Hillsboro, I called out specifically to helicopter pilots that Jim was about to do an inside loop while in autorotation. That got some attention!

Don't underestimate the interest in your personal story. The most amazing thing about your performance for most people would be knowing that you were told you'd never walk or speak in complete sentences, yet not only became a pilot, but a Private Pilot with a medical, whose now flown 7XX safe hours.

As for a chute, would you ever dare use it unless the blades had come completely off?
 
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That’s what I am talking about!

That’s what I am talking about!

I feel that is very well done Jeff.

I am probably going to need to give him more latitude.

I will run it past him with a little less Vance and a little more Predator.

I feel the Predator is not a Gyrocopter.

Thank you again for sharing your insight on IO-470s.

Our time together was one of the highlights of Mentone for me.

I feel confused on a higher level.


Thank you Paul,

I have not run this up the flagpole with the FAA because they have cut me a lot of slack already. I flew the air first air show with very few hours as a private Pilot.

That is important information for Mariah Gale and the operating limitations.

I have met Shawn Tucker several times as I pass through the King City airport where he is based. He has always been very kind and helpful.

I know a couple of other air show performers that might help and one of the more popular Air Bosses.

I am just trying to make the Thunder Over the Valley air show as good as I can make it.

I wish you were reading Jeff’s lines Paul, you are the voice of excitement and humor.

You have given me a new set of things to work on and I appreciate it.

Mariah Gale will have more complete flight testing and more rugged flight controls.

Thank you, Vance
 
I should have previewed the post.

I should have previewed the post.

Thank you Mike,

I agree on the yellow.

The copy I am giving to the announcer has yellow highlights and it is easy to read.

I should have previewed the post. I am not good with computers.

I tried to change it to another color and gave up. I should have used some sort of funny print like to seperate my kneeboard stuf from why I was doing it. That didn't work very well either. I didn't want to do underline.

I am running around trying to get ready for Bonneville, I am leaving at O’dark hundred tomorrow morning.

Two motorcycles that I had a hand in building are running this year. An open Harley Davidson XR 750 on fuel and a 1937 80 cubic inch Indian. We also have a 61 inch engine for the Harley. I have set records on both but I will not be riding them. I did bring my leathers and helmet just in case.

I wanted to go flying today as soon as the fog cleared. It never really left the beach but I had a nice flight up to SBP and then following the hills to Lompoc. It was shirt sleeve warm and just bumpy enough to hold my attention.

Thank you, Vance
 
Vance ... I like what Jeff said in post #5. ... Also, if you pre-rotate in front of the audience , mention that is the only time power goes to the rotor.

Low , and slow , and highly maneuverable flight is where a gyro shines .... the audience will be impressed by a display of normal gyro flying , aerobatics are not necessary and not always safe in front of a crowd..

I wish I could be there to watch you and Predator in action.. You are one of the best representatives of the sport.
 
What people liked last year.

What people liked last year.

Hello Arnie,

The runway is quite a way from the air show box and hard to see from the viewing area so I don’t get to demonstrate anything to do with landing or taking off. I would like too at least do a steep power off approach.

Last year the things most people commented on were the steep climb and descent and the maneuverability at high speeds. I made several 180 degree turns inside the box at 120kts in a descent.

People seemed to like the precision as we would come to the edge of the box in different attitudes and speeds without going outside the box

I had enough wind last time to fly her backward relative to the ground.

People liked the sound when I would point the blades at the crowd and load them up with the power pulled back.

I cut the power at a little under 20kts with the nose high and several people commented on how out of control we looked.

Thank you John, I didn’t know that.

Thank you, Vance
 
Since acceleration is measured in Gs, and a gyroplane can only make about 2.5 Gs in flight no matter what you do to it

Ken Brock once flew some trials in a heavily instrumented KB2 for the US Navy. Ken said he was being followed by a Seaking(?) Helicopter (Navy CH53) when they asked him to pull 2gs, he said he tried everything and couldn't get close to two g units.

I saw Ken exceed 90 degrees of "bank" on several occasions. Ken said that gyros are not capable of 2 gs. due to the solidity ratio of the rotors
 
Is that something you could add Tom?

Is that something you could add Tom?

Thank you Tom; would you add something to my limitations about aerobatic flight when you do the airworthiness certificate for Mariah Gale?



Thank you Paul, I feel that I have a solidity ration of around .03 with the Predator at that weight.

I have the 8.5 chord Sport Copter blades.

She usually flies between 315 and 330 RRPM. I have not seen more than 390 RPM on my rotor tachometer. That would suggest less than 2 Gs to me.

When I was flying with Chris in his Snow Bird at Mentone he felt I exceeded 45 degrees of bank so I may not be a good judge of angles.

John is going to loan me his G meter when we are test flying Mariah Gale.

I was trying to deal with the FSDO and his understanding of the FARs.

He cut me a lot of slack.

Thank you, Vance
 
Can I fly too? ;-P

Can I fly too? ;-P

Vance,
I was wondering if I might be able to fly this time around. :violin:As I recall last year we were not too sure if I should because of the fisdo.

I think people would really like to see that you can take passengers it's one thing to see but quite another to show it being done...also I'd love to get pictures of the crowed. The view is much different from up in the air!

Just something to think on...
Love, Ed

BTW Are you being good at Bonneville. I bet your just itching to ride that Indian again.... ;-P Love you so much Snooky!:D
 
My esential Special Ed

My esential Special Ed

Hello Ed,

I don’t have my FAR/Aim with me so I don’t know the specific number.

As I recall our friend at the Van Nuys FSDO was quite obdurate about not flying in the air show with non essential personnel on board.

You are essential to me but he may not see it that way.

We can ask if you can ride along and take pictures of the people taking pictures of us.

Love, Vance
 
Hi Ed, here's my take on this:

I would never take anyone up in an airshow situation because I want my head and thoughts totally focused on flying. Anyone flying with me -- even if they didn't utter a single word -- takes away some of my attention, whether I want it or not.

Secondly, the performance of the aircraft is noticably better with only the pilot on board. All manoevers will look crisper, the slow flight will be slower and the climbs steeper.

Thirdly, I strongly believe that legally it is just as Vance suspects: all non essential personnel (in the eyes of the FAA) on board is prohibited during this kind of flying.

Greetings, -- Chris.
 
The voice of reason and judgement!

The voice of reason and judgement!

Thank you Chris,

As usual you are the voice of reason.

I do not have my FAR/AIM with me.

It may be on the edge of several things.

We are performing in an air show but we are not doing aerobatic maneuvers.

Ed is always a distraction to me because I love her. I would not want to explain to her children that I had killed their mother.

I hope to give my paper to Mike, the promoter of the Thunder Over the Valley Air Show on Friday.

Thank you, Vance
 
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