pins and needles

[j bird]

Tim, you use the internet, poke around, you'll find the stats, the largest amount of income not reported on tax forms is from the small business person. They estimate in the billons. The cheating going on with wage earners is peanuts compared to businesses.
The IRS figures about 250 billion or more goes unreported.
That means you and I pay more taxes to make up the fifferance, why aren't you guys fighting against the middle income tax cheats of this country instead bad mouthing health care for all americans.

 

[Arnie Madsen]

National sales tax is next! get ready for it.

You are probably right Bud. They will implement it to pay down the deficit.

Our country brought in a 7% national sales tax quite a few years ago. They call it the GST (goods and services tax). Combine that with a 7% provincial tax and you can add 14% to nearly every price tag.

If it is possible for a government to do the right thing on occasion , our government did. They used the extra taxes to pay down debt and our govt even began to have budget surpluses of billions a year as well as paying down debt..

4 years ago we elected a minority conservative government who reduced the national sales tax to 6% and the next year to 5% with an eye on reducing it even further because of our good balance sheets.

Beware the lurking socialists and liberals who hold the balance of power in a minority government. Our country was in a solid financial position before the 2008 economic downturn and could have weathered it with just a few hurts and bumps BUT NO !!! The leftists forced 53 billion in deficit spending (to copy Obama policy) for make work projects and bailouts without real value.

Now we are stuck with forced government overspending again and of course the liberals never take the blame for it.

On a side note we are not as bad as some European countries who have 25% (VAT) sales taxes. (That is how they help pay for universal health care)

I would also add (my opinion) that a national sales tax does have some practical advantages (providing income taxes are kept low.)
We all know the non productive portion of our society (welfare) (illegals) do not pay income taxes but with a national sales tax even they must pay some taxes.

Once in a while I ponder if it might be a good idea to eliminate all income taxes and replace it with a national sales tax of say 15%. It would amount to a flat tax and be applied equally to everyone. I have found that even the socialists who do not like to work , always like to spend .....

 

[Arnie Madsen]

I spent about 25 years in the Autobody business in a small city. My main competitor was a shop 3 or 4 times larger than mine and one of the owners was named Dan.

In spite of being competitors we were good friends and his wife used to babysit my daughter when she was preschool . I always admired Dan , he worked long days in his auto shop and also ran a large farm evenings and weekends. His legs were severely disabled and twisted and he stood about 4 1/2 feet tall. If he had been able to straighten his legs he would probably be at least 6 feet tall. He never once complained or acted disabled. He did more work in one day than most of us could in three.

The thing with my friend Dan was he was politically a 100% socialist thinker. He worked hard building socialist political parties and was really dedicated to his cause. He always took the position that wealth should be distributed evenly , eliminate the rich and poor classes he would say.

For years and years Dan and I would meet in the same restaurant for lunch and we would hotly debate politics. He for the socialist view and me for the capitalist conservative view. He was a good debater and would always considered carefully what I said but I could never convince him of the merits of conservative small governments. We had an admiration for each other because we each took a strong political stand but never took it personally. Our friendship always endured.

That was in my younger years and when I made money I was always spending it on 4X4 trucks and rifles and boats so I could go hunting and fishing every weekend. Not my friend Dan, he kept his nose to the grindstone. When I was fishing he was farming or repairing cars.

Jump ahead 10 years , Dan pulled up to the restaurant one day in a brand new Lincoln Town car. He also produced a picture of the all dressed new Ford pickup he had bought the same day. All paid for cash he said it hardly even hurt to write the check. All of a sudden my 4 year old Chevy looked pretty tattered by comparison.

Dan was proud of his successes , and rightly so. He bragged and gloated and teased and prodded me all in good humor. He said "well Arnie , what have you got to say today?"

I hung my head and said well Dan , you have finally converted me. From this moment on I want to be a socialist just like you. You have worked a lot harder and smarter than I have and it shows here today. Just to show how dedicated a socialist I will be you can let me drive one of your new vehicles half the time and you can also give me some of your hard earned money because my account is running low. As a new socialist I feel it unfair you should have more than me and as good socialists we need to balance out our situation. Do I get the Lincoln or the pickup today?

No bloody way are you getting anything of mine Arnie ..... at that moment Dan no longer liked the socialist view , at that moment Dan realized I had won the political argument. From that moment on Dan became a conservative and never looked back.

True story. In the years since , whenever someone tries to persuade me of the merits of socialism I tell them I am willing provided they first give half of everything they have to the poor and I will follow suit.

I find they are never willing. But they always think everybody else should be. That is the disconnected wire in the mind of the socialist.



Most university professors are politically left. Somehow they all migrate to those positions and try to influence the next generation. But deep underneath they have to face a profound truth. ........

One old Liberal professor explained it this way as he was orientating a group of new professors:

....... treat your A+ students well because some of them will graduate one day and come work beside you as fellow professors.
....... be kind to your A- and B+ students because they will be working in various fields of research directly associated with this University.
....... but go out of your way to befriend the capitalist conservative C students. They will be back here in 20 years to donate a 30 million dollar addition to the local hospital and a new 10 million dollar research lab for the university.

 

[Resasi]

Middle income tax cheats???

The rich/ big corporations can afford the smartest tax consultants and tax lawyers to minimize their taxes.

The poor don't pay taxes.

Just who the heck do you think pays the bulk of taxes j bird.

 

[Heron]

Some of you need to go back and read your own posts.
The Moderators will cut this short but only when some guys are against the fence and start throwing cheap shots and calling names.
I will write down names and start to shine the spot light on them.
Stupidity is nothing to argue about, keep on the subject and help make up minds and a better nation . . .or get your weapons and go to the streets, you are good at it! (or so you think)
Behave!
Heron

 

[scottessex]

Here I'll be first;;;; Take down my name you $#@$^^&!! &*%$$$ and further more
&%#$@()$#$#% !!

 

[Brent Drake]

I think the best way to try to get even with some of these companies that support the health care is there stock. Disney, General electric, and Eli Lilly completely supports this health care thing. Let's all sell these companies stock. See how they do without the financial support from us.

 

[Bumperdog]

Something I have noticed in my 66 years, more people, in any given area, directly relates to less freedom, more laws and rules to control the actions of everyone becomes necessary. Capitalism is what made this country great, work hard and save for the future, do your best and keep moving up the ladder of wealth.
Now it seams like it got out of hand due to greed, so the less fortunate are saying we need Socialism, take it away from the rich and give it to me. This won't work either, no man made government will ever work. There is only one governing force that will work forever but nobody wants to hear it.
You can argue, call each other names and hurt feelings but nothing is going to change. It has all been pre determined and it will all go as planed.

 

[lanichol]

In the new health-care bill, the states are more responsible for medicaid, which means more state taxes and cuts in the future. It means an end to rural Kansas schools & towns.

States Sue Over Overhaul That Will Bust State Budgets Amazing the American revolution was started over a small tax on legal papers, the "Stamp Act".

Is it possible the U.S. economy could collapse?
79% think it is possible.
65% think government has become too big.

2011: Inflation, High interest rates, Stimulus end, tax cut end, new programs kick-in

Unemployment is measure by those receiving unemployment funds. It does not measure underemployment. Underemployment can only be inferred by state revenues.

The greatest & best paying growth sector is Federal jobs. Now 1/6 of GDP has been added to the Federal sector which is a net consumer of wealth. Name one Federal agency that runs efficiently and does not have cost overruns. Medicare bankrupt in 5 years, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac bankrupt,

There are two schools of thought in the health-care plan. Those that believe we have a right to rationed health-care. And those that intend to use it for the modern socialization & permanent empowerment via dependence. Which will be strengthened by Illegals with voting rights, new Congressional district gains by counting Illegals in the census, CAP & Trade which will result in high energy cost.

This administration must keep the economy struggling to accomplish their goals. Immigration first, then CAP and Trade.

For the future if you are underemployed, you will continue to be underemployed. When individuals, schools, and small businesses have drain their saved/reserved dollars, then you will see another "Change".

 

[choppergabor]

By the way Gabor, I made a lot of good investments in my day, I hurt for nothing, you Know "You reap what you sew", And I mean
that in more ways then one.

Jay you just gave me the last word for this argument. You are celebrating the law being signed by the community organizer that forces the private citizen to go into a contract with an entity or a company to purchase something he or she doesn't need. What makes you think after this proof of forcing people into a contract against their wills that they will not take your money you have invested and force you to invest into government run programs by force? Think for one second I beg you. See it for what it is! "You reap what you sew"
K I am done

 

[Sheldon]

Government + Efficiency = Oxymoron...

Government + Efficiency = Oxymoron...

Oh please tell me no one here actually believes that this huge pork-barrel bill that will help to kill this nation and it's people is actually a good thing?

 

[lanichol]

Separation of Church and State. Very much supported by the left saying you can not have any religion. The original intent was to prevent the church from influencing the function or having control over government. The Constitution still says we are empowered by God. One of the major changes from England is that in America if you go bankrupt, you do not go to prison.

Following this logic, the Constitution limits the role of government.
Thus government has no role in running a business or forcing people to purchase,
and their authority to regulate is somewhat questionable.
We have to give the individual buy-in and the freedom to fail. But don't put them in prison.
The new health-care program should not stand the scrutiny of the Constitution.

If the Tea Parties and similar organizations were savvy, they would have a Constitutional
Convention and step forward with a platform/policy that truly follows the Constitution
regardless of party.

 

[Resasi]

J bird sowing and sewing are two different things. You do reap what you sow/plant. What you sew you wear.

Never did get back to us on who the bulk are that pay the taxes. Try those middle class cheats you were going on about.

Oh dear, do I now have to worry about Heron spotlighting me.:der:

 

[j bird]

Resasi, apparently you don't read very well, reread post 98.

 

[j bird]

It's really kind of sad how hateful we become over politics.

 

[BUD ONEAL]

It's really kind of sad how hateful we become over politics.

You must have wanted this disagreement all along. You are the one who started it.
By the way you can skip giving to the goverment and simply send it to some of us , You will be giving it up big boy,one way or the other!:lalala:

 

[PW_Plack]

...Now it seams like it got out of hand due to greed, so the less fortunate are saying we need Socialism, take it away from the rich and give it to me. This won't work either...

I'm a little surprised at the mystery surrounding how we got here. There were some very specific changes made which (admittedly in hindsight) dismantled the protections our founders gave us against this.

The institution of an income tax was a big one. Without an income tax, taxes are all about funding the legitimate role of government. An income tax instantly makes taxes about dictating how people live, and an overwhelming temptation for politicians to use class envy as a campaign tactic.

The other biggie that comes to mind is the 17th Amendment, which changed the US Senate from a body of representatives of the states, chosen by state legislatures, to a group of representatives elected directly by the people. From what I can tell, this was done because state legislatures were corrupt, and too often choosing senators who were beholden to wealthy interests or otherwise corrupt.

The correct answer, of course, would have been to clean up the state legislatures appointing them. Instead, the only thing standing in the way of unlimited federal encroachment on the rights of the states was removed.

So far, 14 states have joined a lawsuit against federal healthcare. That suggests to me that if the US Senate was doing what it was designed to do, this bill could never have become law.

 

[j bird]

I sure didn't realize how much pent up vitriol towards the left there is since they took over. I guess since this forum seems to be made up of mostly of people on right, I maybe should keep my mouth shut in the off topic section to insure that I don't alienate you guys on the right. You might shut me out in the other threads where I might post, I don't want that, from now on I'll try and refrain my posts in the off topic section to jokes, naked women, and politics.

 

[Timchick]

Illegal aliens are by far the biggest tax cheats in this country. They pay nothing and get free care which the rest of us are covering. Instead of hiring 16,000 IRS agents we need to hire 16,000 border patrol agents and start deporting the millions of illegals who are here sucking us dry.

 

[PW_Plack]

It's really kind of sad how hateful we become over politics.

J, if I thought the biggest priority for our society was providing grants to people starting small and medium-sized businesses to pay their rent through their first five difficult years, and started a foundation to provide that help using voluntary contributions, you'd probably be unenthusiastic, but wish me well and continue your own pursuit of happiness.

If, instead, I found a way to get a majority of elected representatives to make it a government program, and take money out of your paycheck to go toward that cause, you'd have every right to be angry, because you don't owe those small businessmen anything.

People like to blame the vitriol on the media. The anger happens because activists who think government should be used as a tool to define our society are using it to take money from people by force rather than convince them to contribute voluntarily, and people in California and Pennsylvania are trying to tell people in Mississippi and Wyoming how to live their lives.

If people in Wyoming wanted the values and lifestyle of California, they could move there.

The morally appropriate way to fund free healthcare for the poor would be to start a lean, efficient charity and collect voluntary donations, run a PR campaign to make it fashionable for medical professionals to donate a portion of their time, (some already do,) get the big pharmaceutical companies to offer special programs for medications for the poor, (which they now have created on their own,) and leave donors with the good feeling which comes from helping one's fellow man.

Instead, we're now going to do it by force, further bloat our most inefficient mechanism for providing services, hire 16,00 new government goons to enforce a new tax, threaten fines and jail to deal with those who don't share the priority, and make taxpayers resent the poor, and vice versa.

I don't try to coerce other people to live their lives or spend their money as I see fit, and expect the same. Talk radio and Fox News are not the cause of the anger, they're the result of the anger.